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<blockquote data-quote="Anthtriel" data-source="post: 3860984" data-attributes="member: 13764">Aragorn and Lancelot are not valid examples of high level fighters. Not in the rules as is, and certainly not if you empower the fighters more (which frankly, is necessary).High Level D&amp;D fighters kill armies by themselves. It's a long and tedious process, but since low level warriors can barely even hit him, the Level 20 Fighter in the RAW can beat hundreds of them. Lancelot and Aragorn don't fight against hundreds enemies by themselves at once, not even against more than ten or so, when they are surrounded. That is anime territory.Hell, Aragorn can do nothing but run from the Balor. The Level 20 fighter would be able to fight that demon. How? Certainly not by swinging his sword a little better. Aragorn is around level 9 oder 10 at best. He doesn't even need to compete against high level magic.Face it, if fighters are supposed to compete with high level wizards, who move mountains and bend reality, they need something more. I don't refer to jumping hundreds of feats, or flying without magic, but they certainly need supernatural toughness, supernatural strength and supernatural speed (in attacking at least).If a Level 20 fighter fights, he should be like Sauron in the Fellowship of the Ring movie. Easily smashing dozens of enemies at once, virtually invincible. Anything less than that, and they are limited to a servant.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Anthtriel, post: 3860984, member: 13764"] Aragorn and Lancelot are not valid examples of high level fighters. Not in the rules as is, and certainly not if you empower the fighters more (which frankly, is necessary). High Level D&D fighters kill armies by themselves. It's a long and tedious process, but since low level warriors can barely even hit him, the Level 20 Fighter in the RAW can beat hundreds of them. Lancelot and Aragorn don't fight against hundreds enemies by themselves at once, not even against more than ten or so, when they are surrounded. That is anime territory. Hell, Aragorn can do nothing but run from the Balor. The Level 20 fighter would be able to fight that demon. How? Certainly not by swinging his sword a little better. Aragorn is around level 9 oder 10 at best. He doesn't even need to compete against high level magic. Face it, if fighters are supposed to compete with high level wizards, who move mountains and bend reality, they need something more. I don't refer to jumping hundreds of feats, or flying without magic, but they certainly need supernatural toughness, supernatural strength and supernatural speed (in attacking at least). If a Level 20 fighter fights, he should be like Sauron in the Fellowship of the Ring movie. Easily smashing dozens of enemies at once, virtually invincible. Anything less than that, and they are limited to a servant. [/QUOTE]

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