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<blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3861150" data-attributes="member: 22882">The only problem I have with this is that the Spartans in &quot;300,&quot; awesome and over-the-top as they seem to our mundane eyes, are really on MID-level fighters.&nbsp; In 4e terms, I think they'll be excellent examples of what fighters can be the 'paragon' levels - levels 10-20.&nbsp; Most cinematic fantasy heroes are in this same range, including the movie versions of Aragorn and Legolas and Conan and Achilles.&nbsp; I can maybe see Beowulf at the extreme upper end of this range.But an epic fighter (or a high-teens fighter in 3e) is beyond that level.&nbsp; He's not really a &quot;fantasy novel&quot; character any more, he's a &quot;mythic&quot; character.&nbsp; He's on par with the Achilles of the original epic: LITERALLY (and magically) invulnerable except for his one weak point.&nbsp; Or Heracles, who briefly takes the load of THE ENTIRE WORLD off a titan's shoulders.&nbsp; As awesome as Leonidas is, he's not going to be hoisting planets, and he can still be killed by someone who bypasses or overwhelms his skill.Eventually, you hit that point where fighters, like all other PCs, are mythic characters or superheroes.&nbsp; They pass through Gritty, Pulp and Action Movie and hit a level where what they're doing is not even remotely related to what actual humans do.&nbsp; HOW they go about doing their demigodly deeds matters less than the fact they're doing them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoogleEmpMog, post: 3861150, member: 22882"] The only problem I have with this is that the Spartans in "300," awesome and over-the-top as they seem to our mundane eyes, are really on MID-level fighters. In 4e terms, I think they'll be excellent examples of what fighters can be the 'paragon' levels - levels 10-20. Most cinematic fantasy heroes are in this same range, including the movie versions of Aragorn and Legolas and Conan and Achilles. I can maybe see Beowulf at the extreme upper end of this range. But an epic fighter (or a high-teens fighter in 3e) is beyond that level. He's not really a "fantasy novel" character any more, he's a "mythic" character. He's on par with the Achilles of the original epic: LITERALLY (and magically) invulnerable except for his one weak point. Or Heracles, who briefly takes the load of THE ENTIRE WORLD off a titan's shoulders. As awesome as Leonidas is, he's not going to be hoisting planets, and he can still be killed by someone who bypasses or overwhelms his skill. Eventually, you hit that point where fighters, like all other PCs, are mythic characters or superheroes. They pass through Gritty, Pulp and Action Movie and hit a level where what they're doing is not even remotely related to what actual humans do. HOW they go about doing their demigodly deeds matters less than the fact they're doing them. [/QUOTE]

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