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<blockquote data-quote="Engilbrand" data-source="post: 3865210" data-attributes="member: 44184">Batman is being used as an example of someone without &quot;powers&quot;. That's only true to a point. Even ignoring all of his gadgets (magic items), what is he capable of? He's so perfectly trained that he can take a ton of punishment and keep going, doesn't need nearly as much sleep as anyone else and is still perfectly coherent, his aim and reflexes are, for lack of a better word, perfect. He can easily jump over multiple people while wearing a heavy suit. He can jump from a high point and land without much of a care.Realistically, Batman cannot exist. His abilities are superhuman. He's beyond what is capable in reality. Well, in our reality, at least. For the DC Universe, though, he's possible. Like any comic (fantasy) universe, you're bound to have things that push the limits of what we are capable of. Normal people in the DC Universe can't do what Batman can do. There are few who can, though. They are the major heroes and villains who train themselves to what is inherently possible for THAT Universe. Not for ours.For the D&amp;D Universe, magic permeates everything. We already know that people are capable of a lot more. Look at the ability to jump from a cliff and survive it without much injury. This is not our reality. High level &quot;mundane&quot; characters should be just like Batman. They are the heroes and villains who tap into what is possible in that Universe and do things that the common man can't possibly do.I'm reading the Conan comics. Conan is not a normal person. While he can't do overtly supernatural things, he definitely pushes himself beyond what is realistic. Why? Because it's possible in his Universe so that he can be the &quot;hero&quot; (antihero?). The same goes for Red Sonja. The literary and theatrical characters push beyond what is real according to us. If they weren't able to do what we can't, they would die fast and we wouldn't care.4E Fighter &quot;powers&quot; will probably be just like Batman: ridiculous moves that involve doing things that us &quot;Normals&quot; just can't do. And that's what makes it cool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Engilbrand, post: 3865210, member: 44184"] Batman is being used as an example of someone without "powers". That's only true to a point. Even ignoring all of his gadgets (magic items), what is he capable of? He's so perfectly trained that he can take a ton of punishment and keep going, doesn't need nearly as much sleep as anyone else and is still perfectly coherent, his aim and reflexes are, for lack of a better word, perfect. He can easily jump over multiple people while wearing a heavy suit. He can jump from a high point and land without much of a care. Realistically, Batman cannot exist. His abilities are superhuman. He's beyond what is capable in reality. Well, in our reality, at least. For the DC Universe, though, he's possible. Like any comic (fantasy) universe, you're bound to have things that push the limits of what we are capable of. Normal people in the DC Universe can't do what Batman can do. There are few who can, though. They are the major heroes and villains who train themselves to what is inherently possible for THAT Universe. Not for ours. For the D&D Universe, magic permeates everything. We already know that people are capable of a lot more. Look at the ability to jump from a cliff and survive it without much injury. This is not our reality. High level "mundane" characters should be just like Batman. They are the heroes and villains who tap into what is possible in that Universe and do things that the common man can't possibly do. I'm reading the Conan comics. Conan is not a normal person. While he can't do overtly supernatural things, he definitely pushes himself beyond what is realistic. Why? Because it's possible in his Universe so that he can be the "hero" (antihero?). The same goes for Red Sonja. The literary and theatrical characters push beyond what is real according to us. If they weren't able to do what we can't, they would die fast and we wouldn't care. 4E Fighter "powers" will probably be just like Batman: ridiculous moves that involve doing things that us "Normals" just can't do. And that's what makes it cool. [/QUOTE]

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