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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Drifter Bob" data-source="post: 1700044" data-attributes="member: 17723">I guess it's time for ole drifter bob to chime in here!I have three comments.1) One nice thing about high magic is having a lot of options.  I think one of the reasons a lot of people go to low magic is that the basic magic system of D&D is poorly organized, but this is difficult to change because the fan base of D&D has expectations going back to before 1E.  Think of a spell like invisibility, whole fairy tales are built around that ability, it's incredibly powerful.  Instead of giving it false limitations for balance (what logical sense does it make that you blink into visibility if you attack somebody?) maybe it should be made the very high level spell that it really is?  There are numerous other spells which don't make sense as low or mid level spells.  My personal list includes detect-evil (most detection spell), fly, dimension door, passwall, find the path, (find anything) commune, teleport, raise dead, fireball, lightning bolt, silence, and numerous others.   If these spells were classified as high level spells (I think spell levels should go up to around 15 or 20!) as they probably should be the whole system would make a lot more sense, IMO.The reason I say this, is because though I prefer low magic, as a DM I personally like to give the players a LOT of spell options, just not so many super powerful ones.  One of the things i always hated about playing a wizard was how weak and limited 1st level mages were.   They got their one shot which was usually pretty lethal, and then they were essentially useless until they got a day to rest.   But if you give them more options that are a little less powerful, they can be contributing to the adventure the whole time.  Rather than the all or nothing of one instant kill spell, like say one fireball, I'd like to give them ten or fifteen low to mid- level spells, 0 level, 1/2 level, 1st level... which can do wierd things that a thinking player could take advantage of.  I love the cantrips in 3E and spells like mage hand, and reduce, and rope trick.  I put like 30 cantrips of this sort in a d20 book I wrote, to expand the repertoire of interesting low level spells.  A spell to summon a tiny fire elemental out of a bonfire or tiny water elemental from a stream; a spell to make somebody suddenly have to go take a leak (like that pesky guard standing in front of the gate); a spell to turn mice and toads into the likeness of fair maidens; a spell to drop yourself down to ant size to do some scouting; a spell to make pursuers change direction without realising; a spell to make somebody forget the last thing you said to them...When running my own campaign I'll often give a low level spellcaster a ring of wizardry early on to double their 1st level spells, so they'll have more options, and yet, I don't like playing high magic games, for all the reasons described in this thread ... which brings me to my next point...2) Almost everybody tinkers with the existing experience point bonus system, because it lets players level too quickly.  There seems to be a 'sweet spot' in D&D somewhere around 4-9th level.  Any lower and you are basically a speedbump, and much higher and you start to be a cartoonish super dude, more like "He Man masters of the universe" than a gritty character from Howard, or Leiber, or Moorcock, or Vance.  Not to reiterate what has already been said but the game becomes about collecting and matching up various items and powers.Generally, I think (ducking shower of bricks) a little tinkering with the basic D&D rules would make the game a lot more fun.  Move a few spells around, up the xp point curve a good chunk, and make magic items much more expensive and rare, (and make magic item creation a bit harder) and suddenly you have a much more fun game people need to tinker with a lot less.  I think that would be an excellent start.3) ON THE OTHER HAND, I must caution you glassjaw:  Over the years I have run across a lot of 'serious' people who push the low magic pendulum way, way too far in the other direction, to the point where in one campaign I know of (which one my players is in on the side) after three years of playing about once a month, they are all still second level.  Campaigns in which the players almost never get to fight, and are nearly powerless.  That can be really lame.  I think the idea is to give as many options as possible without overloading the game to where it becomes this spectacular farce.just my $.02DB</blockquote>

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