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Message: <blockquote data-quote="molonel" data-source="post: 1704691" data-attributes="member: 10412">What sophistry? He said that among the high magics he didn't like was scrying, and then compared it to LotR. I can't help it if he likes to compare D&D to books he may or may not have read, and chooses not to remember inconvenient points for the sake of argument. So, if I understand you correctly, you want those things to be in the hands of the NPC, and therefore the DM, but not the players. Thank you for proving my earlier point. So it's not scrying that bothers you. It's not the DM having scry that bothers you. It's players having scry that bothers you.I'm sorry, who was using the sophistry? Even in standard D&D world, the number of people who can cast meteor storms (a 9th level spell requiring a 17th level caster) or throw up prismatic walls (an 8th level spell requiring a 15th level caster) is such that most people, and even most characters, will never see such things throughout the majority of their non-epic careers, much less than entire lives. You guys seem to switch back and forth between LotR and Conan, depending on the argument. In 3.5 rules, in a standard world, the number of people who can cast Raise Dead (a 5th level spell requiring a 9th level caster, and a 5,000 gp jewel) is not great. Resurrection? Level 7 spell, 11th level caster, and a 10,000 gp gem. Ever looked up the availability of large, perfect gems in a standard city? Even if you can CAST Raise Dead, technically, that doesn't mean you have the components to do so. For many characters between 9th to 12th level, that might very well be worthy of a quest. You can smack me, and call me, "Suzanne!" but that sounds like an interesting adventure to me. If you, on the other hand, prefer dead characters to stay dead, then that is simply a matter of taste. There is nothing we can argue about, because you can't argue preferences.Well, you can, but it's pointless.Now we're getting into questions of game design, and fiction versus game-time. Yes, they probably would have flown to Mt. Doom, or done anything other than drag themselves through hundreds of miles of ash and blackened stone for page after page after page, being led along by a small creature mumbling to himself. And it would have been a more interesting game, as a result. Some things that work in fiction do NOT work in a game, and the whole trudging to Mt. Doom would have been a real snozer of a campaign. If someone has played in one of my games long enough to be able to use spells like Teleport and Cloudkill, I'd like to think I can reward them with a more interesting encounter than ... more orcs. Lots and lots of orcs. Helms Deep would have been a great adventure for characters around 8th to 9th level. And if you think that would be a boring encounter, then you've never run a mass combat in 3rd Edition D&D.Read this article by Monte Cook:<a href="http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly16.html" target="_blank">http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly16.html</a>It's about designing high level adventures.</blockquote>

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