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Message: <blockquote data-quote="molonel" data-source="post: 1719911" data-attributes="member: 10412">You asked me for one counter-example. I gave it to you using the criteria you provided. It's equally "possible" that black sorcerors and spellcasters were a strong part of Sauron's army. We're dealing with possibilities and potentials here. You're asking me to give you the names of people who weren't directly involved in the story using ... what, exactly? When I mentioned something from The Book of Lost Tales Volume II, earlier, that was dismissed as an early version of the story because of course it's OBVIOUS that Tolkien intended Middle Earth to be a low magic world. How would Tolkien have portrayed the parts of the world he didn't elaborate on further? That's a good question, and one that neither you nor I can answer. Men are capable of magic, both wielding it and using it. That potential is obvious. The only thing "telling" thing is that the people we see using magic in the stories are main characters with the backgrounds you describe. And that, ultimately, is the best and strongest argument for low magic worlds, in my opinion: not because that is what Tolkien or Howard did, though elements from their stories can be useful. It is a feel that people are looking for. And people emerge with a different "feel" from fiction which is only imperfectly reflected in gaming terms.barsoomcore, I have a polite, peaceful request: please stop interpreting everything I say as a personal attack on you. I said, "But the ground of this discussion has shifted several times." I didn't say, "That @#$#@ing barsoomcore can't make up his mind." The criteria by which WE in this discussion have considered what makes a low magic world has certainly changed and shifted ground over the 14- or 15-some pages (Edit: Now 17) of this discussion. I know I've personally raised several different points while speaking with at least half a dozen posters. You have not demolished anything other than my faith that you are willing to pursue this argument as anything other than a jones-fix for your ego, and a personal duel. If I am incapable of doing anything other than offending you, then I'm done arguing with you.</blockquote>

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