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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Why the change in DR from 3.0 to 3.5
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<blockquote data-quote="Belzbet" data-source="post: 5873468" data-attributes="member: 6678902"><p>This is all core:</p><p>Human Ranger lv. 1</p><p></p><p>HP: 9</p><p>AC: 17 </p><p>SAVES: Fort +3 Ref +5 Will +0</p><p></p><p>ATTACK: +4 (+1 from BAB, +2 from dex, +1 from arrows) </p><p>RAPID SHOT: +2/+0</p><p>DAMAGE vs Dragons: 1d8+5 (+2 str, +1 Arrows, +2 favored enemy) Crit: 20/X3</p><p></p><p>Ranger (Favored Enemy Dragons)</p><p></p><p>Standard Array Used:</p><p>Str 14 Dex 15 Con 13 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 8</p><p></p><p>Feat: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot (I know a ranger gets rapid shot for free at lv. 2 but...)</p><p>Class Features: Track, Wild Empathy, favored enemy (dragons)</p><p></p><p>Elf Traits</p><p></p><p>Items: Chain Shirt (although I dont think Armor will help this warrior against an adult dragon), Composite Longbow (mighty +2), 50 +1 Arrows. This army is funded by a wealthy man.</p><p>Longwsord and heavy shield as back up. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wood Elf Fighter Lv. 1</p><p></p><p>HP: 11</p><p>AC: 16</p><p>SAVES: Fort + 3, Ref +3 Will +0</p><p></p><p>ATTACK: +5 (+1 from BAB, +3 from dex, +1 from arrows)</p><p>Rapid Shot: +3/+1</p><p>DAMAGE: 1d8+3 (+2 str, +1 Arrows) </p><p></p><p>STANDARD ARRAY USED: </p><p>Str. 14 (+2 racial) Dex 17 (+2 Racial) Con 12 (-2 Racial) Int 11 (-2 Racial) Wis 10 Cha 8</p><p></p><p>FEATS: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot</p><p></p><p>Elf Traits</p><p></p><p>ITEMS: Chain Shirt (although I dont think Armor will help this warrior against an adult dragon), Composite Longbow (mighty +2), 50 +1 Arrows. This army is funded by a wealthy man.</p><p>Longwsord and heavy shield as back up.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Adult Green Dragon:</p><p> So I dont have to write out the stats we will take the stats of thesult green sample dragon they give in 3.5 MM.</p><p>It has 230HP on average.</p><p> </p><p>AC 27 (so only a crit can hit them, so they get hit by 5% of the arrows)</p><p></p><p>ATTACK: The attack modifier for all of the dragons natural attacks is higher than the archers AC (so a dragon only misses on a natural 1, or 5% of the time)</p><p></p><p>DAMAGE: its bite attack does on average about 20 damage (at a minimum it does 11 damage, and since the archers do not have toughness or a high Con. that is sufficient to kill any archer in one hit, we could make the archers con higher and str. lower but the dragons would still on average do 20 damage which is enough to kill even a Con. 18 fighter with toughness in one hit)</p><p></p><p>We will say that the archers are spread out enough (every archer is at least 55ft from any other archer)that the dragon can only kill one of them at a time with its natural attacks and breath (a spell might hit two of them at once though, but an adult green can only cast level 2 spells)</p><p></p><p>We will also say that the dragon can move fromone archer to another and attack all in the same round (it has 15ft reach and can move 40ft)</p><p>So, at minimum it will take the dragon 50 rounds to kill all 50 archers that are not effected by frightful presence. But to take into account move time and critical misses we will say that it will take the dragon 53 rounds to kill all 50 archers (a VERY generous number, since conditions would probaly be different and the dragon would probably take shorter to kill the archers)</p><p></p><p>Each round one of the 50 archers dies except, lets say,round 25 and 50)</p><p></p><p>Every Archer fires a rapid shot each round even if the dragon threatens it. Each attack has a 5% chance to hit. Out of 100 attack roles 5 of them should be hits.</p><p>On average the human rangers will do 9 damage and the elven fighters will do 7 (or a human ranger without a composite bow). </p><p></p><p>LEts say the archers are rangers also lets say the dragon is the last creature to go in combat:</p><p>On round 1 and 2 the archers do 81 damage (63 if the are fighters or rangers without composite bows) total (45 on round one 36 one round two). </p><p></p><p>On round 3 the archers do 36 (or 28 damage without composite bows; there are 49 archers now) and they collectively get 98 hits so about 4 or 5 hits each doing 9 damage on average (or 7 damage on average for fighter or for a ranger without a composite longbow)</p><p>On round 4 the 47 archers left will collectively get 94 attacks 5% of which are actual hits (5% of 94= 4.7, so we will say they get 4 hits)</p><p>So, on round 4 the archers will do about 36 damage (28 if fighters or rangers without composite bows)</p><p>The dragon is down to 77HP (or 111 with fightersor rangers without composite bows). This will continue and the dragon will die. </p><p></p><p>However the conditions are vey idealized: EVERY ranger has dragons as their favored enemy AND rapid shot, the archers are spread out enough so that the dragon can only kill one and the dragon gets no cover, also this is merely an adult dragon (a great wyrm has over 700HP so may be able to survive all 50 rounds) (range is not an issue since critical hits are the only attacks that matter) </p><p>On the other hand some of the other 950 archers will snap out of being frightened within 10 rounds and then the dragon will be in BIG trouble. I dont think even a great wyrm dragon can take on 900 archers firing at it if the archers are sufficiently spread out</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Belzbet, post: 5873468, member: 6678902"] This is all core: Human Ranger lv. 1 HP: 9 AC: 17 SAVES: Fort +3 Ref +5 Will +0 ATTACK: +4 (+1 from BAB, +2 from dex, +1 from arrows) RAPID SHOT: +2/+0 DAMAGE vs Dragons: 1d8+5 (+2 str, +1 Arrows, +2 favored enemy) Crit: 20/X3 Ranger (Favored Enemy Dragons) Standard Array Used: Str 14 Dex 15 Con 13 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 8 Feat: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot (I know a ranger gets rapid shot for free at lv. 2 but...) Class Features: Track, Wild Empathy, favored enemy (dragons) Elf Traits Items: Chain Shirt (although I dont think Armor will help this warrior against an adult dragon), Composite Longbow (mighty +2), 50 +1 Arrows. This army is funded by a wealthy man. Longwsord and heavy shield as back up. Wood Elf Fighter Lv. 1 HP: 11 AC: 16 SAVES: Fort + 3, Ref +3 Will +0 ATTACK: +5 (+1 from BAB, +3 from dex, +1 from arrows) Rapid Shot: +3/+1 DAMAGE: 1d8+3 (+2 str, +1 Arrows) STANDARD ARRAY USED: Str. 14 (+2 racial) Dex 17 (+2 Racial) Con 12 (-2 Racial) Int 11 (-2 Racial) Wis 10 Cha 8 FEATS: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot Elf Traits ITEMS: Chain Shirt (although I dont think Armor will help this warrior against an adult dragon), Composite Longbow (mighty +2), 50 +1 Arrows. This army is funded by a wealthy man. Longwsord and heavy shield as back up. Adult Green Dragon: So I dont have to write out the stats we will take the stats of thesult green sample dragon they give in 3.5 MM. It has 230HP on average. AC 27 (so only a crit can hit them, so they get hit by 5% of the arrows) ATTACK: The attack modifier for all of the dragons natural attacks is higher than the archers AC (so a dragon only misses on a natural 1, or 5% of the time) DAMAGE: its bite attack does on average about 20 damage (at a minimum it does 11 damage, and since the archers do not have toughness or a high Con. that is sufficient to kill any archer in one hit, we could make the archers con higher and str. lower but the dragons would still on average do 20 damage which is enough to kill even a Con. 18 fighter with toughness in one hit) We will say that the archers are spread out enough (every archer is at least 55ft from any other archer)that the dragon can only kill one of them at a time with its natural attacks and breath (a spell might hit two of them at once though, but an adult green can only cast level 2 spells) We will also say that the dragon can move fromone archer to another and attack all in the same round (it has 15ft reach and can move 40ft) So, at minimum it will take the dragon 50 rounds to kill all 50 archers that are not effected by frightful presence. But to take into account move time and critical misses we will say that it will take the dragon 53 rounds to kill all 50 archers (a VERY generous number, since conditions would probaly be different and the dragon would probably take shorter to kill the archers) Each round one of the 50 archers dies except, lets say,round 25 and 50) Every Archer fires a rapid shot each round even if the dragon threatens it. Each attack has a 5% chance to hit. Out of 100 attack roles 5 of them should be hits. On average the human rangers will do 9 damage and the elven fighters will do 7 (or a human ranger without a composite bow). LEts say the archers are rangers also lets say the dragon is the last creature to go in combat: On round 1 and 2 the archers do 81 damage (63 if the are fighters or rangers without composite bows) total (45 on round one 36 one round two). On round 3 the archers do 36 (or 28 damage without composite bows; there are 49 archers now) and they collectively get 98 hits so about 4 or 5 hits each doing 9 damage on average (or 7 damage on average for fighter or for a ranger without a composite longbow) On round 4 the 47 archers left will collectively get 94 attacks 5% of which are actual hits (5% of 94= 4.7, so we will say they get 4 hits) So, on round 4 the archers will do about 36 damage (28 if fighters or rangers without composite bows) The dragon is down to 77HP (or 111 with fightersor rangers without composite bows). This will continue and the dragon will die. However the conditions are vey idealized: EVERY ranger has dragons as their favored enemy AND rapid shot, the archers are spread out enough so that the dragon can only kill one and the dragon gets no cover, also this is merely an adult dragon (a great wyrm has over 700HP so may be able to survive all 50 rounds) (range is not an issue since critical hits are the only attacks that matter) On the other hand some of the other 950 archers will snap out of being frightened within 10 rounds and then the dragon will be in BIG trouble. I dont think even a great wyrm dragon can take on 900 archers firing at it if the archers are sufficiently spread out [/QUOTE]
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Why the change in DR from 3.0 to 3.5
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