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<blockquote data-quote="Incenjucar" data-source="post: 6239182" data-attributes="member: 6182">Damage is hit point reduction. Using a different definition when you're talking about a game with rules about damage is not helpful.If you are talking about whether or not you can have a wizard who is incapable of being useful in any way in a combat challenge outside of slap-fighting trolls, no, you can't do that in 4E, but you can do that in previous editions by taking an incredibly narrow selection of low-level spells, like that Bubble Bath spell. As wizard players should know, non-damage magic can still have absolutely tremendous combat application - heck even the Bubble Bath spell could be used as a threat against a monster that's averse to being clean and you could drive it off a cliff or something. Teleport and fly are a vital components to some of the most devastating nova tactics in any edition.The abilities available to characters in 4E do assume that combat is part of the game, and that all characters should be functional in a combat situation, though directly dealing damage is NOT the only way that characters do this. It would also be trivial to just add powers to the classes which had no combat application so that players could take those instead, just like a prior-edition wizard can choose between Magic Missile and Bubble Bath.--Of course, the instant a wand of magic missile shows up, that wizard becomes a combat character.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Incenjucar, post: 6239182, member: 6182"] Damage is hit point reduction. Using a different definition when you're talking about a game with rules about damage is not helpful. If you are talking about whether or not you can have a wizard who is incapable of being useful in any way in a combat challenge outside of slap-fighting trolls, no, you can't do that in 4E, but you can do that in previous editions by taking an incredibly narrow selection of low-level spells, like that Bubble Bath spell. As wizard players [B]should[/B] know, non-damage magic can still have absolutely tremendous combat application - heck even the Bubble Bath spell could be used as a threat against a monster that's averse to being clean and you could drive it off a cliff or something. Teleport and fly are a vital components to some of the most devastating nova tactics in any edition. The abilities available to characters in 4E do assume that combat is part of the game, and that all characters should be functional in a combat situation, though directly dealing damage is NOT the only way that characters do this. It would also be trivial to just add powers to the classes which had no combat application so that players could take those instead, just like a prior-edition wizard can choose between Magic Missile and Bubble Bath. -- Of course, the instant a wand of magic missile shows up, that wizard [I]becomes[/I] a combat character. [/QUOTE]

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