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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 6240258" data-attributes="member: 85870">Here's my real issue with RPGs that are highly focused on combat: There's better ways for players primarily interested in combat to &quot;get their fix&quot; than trying to shoehorn their prerogatives / imperatives into a roleplaying session. Why is it D&amp;D's job, or any other RPG's job, to provide &quot;combat warrior Bob&quot; with an avenue to fulfill his gamist need for &quot;step on up&quot; combat challenges, when there's any number of ostensibly better ways he could do it? Why not point him to:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heroclix</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warhammer</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">D&amp;D Minis</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Battletech</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Pathfinder card game</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Runebound</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pretty much any MMO in existence</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skyrim</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heck, why not just tell him to go find his Diablo II CD in his basement, re-install it and have at it?</li>
</ul>The problem is that there's a shift, and a NECESSARY one I might add, going on in the RPG world. If D&amp;D is becoming less and less relevant in the RPG scene, it's because the gamists no longer need it to get the same fix they can get elsewhere. Increasing focus on combat in an RPG is now a detriment, rather than a positive, since you're never going to win over the hearts of those who can get their gamist fix elsewhere, while simultaneously alienating players that want the &quot;other stuff&quot; an RPG offers besides combat.We are two generations beyond the Gygax / Arneson wargaming roots. There's a near-infinite number of ways someone looking for a &quot;war-game-ish&quot; experience can get what they need in places besides RPGs. In today's world, RPGs' &quot;raison d'etre&quot; is to provide an imaginative experience BEYOND the confines of purely gamist combat needs.Failure to recognize this reality is Wizards of the Coast's truest hindrance.D&amp;D was originally a &quot;gamist&quot; game. It's evolved over the years to incorporate more narrativist and simulationist tendencies, but at it's core, it's still a largely gamist enterprise. The problem is, gamists don't need D&amp;D and wargames anymore like they used to. With this in mind, it is absolutely no surprise to me that &quot;modern&quot; games are incorporating more and more narrativist mechanics and playstyles--because frankly, it's the &quot;sweet spot&quot; for providing a unique creative / cultural / social experience.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 6240258, member: 85870"] Here's my real issue with RPGs that are highly focused on combat: There's better ways for players primarily interested in combat to "get their fix" than trying to shoehorn their prerogatives / imperatives into a roleplaying session. Why is it D&D's job, or any other RPG's job, to provide "combat warrior Bob" with an avenue to fulfill his gamist need for "step on up" combat challenges, when there's any number of ostensibly better ways he could do it? Why not point him to: [LIST] [*]Heroclix [*]Warhammer [*]D&D Minis [*]Battletech [*]The Pathfinder card game [*]Runebound [*]Pretty much any MMO in existence [*]Skyrim [*]Heck, why not just tell him to go find his Diablo II CD in his basement, re-install it and have at it? [/LIST] The problem is that there's a shift, and a NECESSARY one I might add, going on in the RPG world. If D&D is becoming less and less relevant in the RPG scene, it's because the gamists no longer need it to get the same fix they can get elsewhere. Increasing focus on combat in an RPG is now a detriment, rather than a positive, since you're never going to win over the hearts of those who can get their gamist fix elsewhere, while simultaneously alienating players that want the "other stuff" an RPG offers besides combat. We are two generations beyond the Gygax / Arneson wargaming roots. There's a near-infinite number of ways someone looking for a "war-game-ish" experience can get what they need in places besides RPGs. In today's world, RPGs' "raison d'etre" is to provide an imaginative experience BEYOND the confines of purely gamist combat needs. Failure to recognize this reality is Wizards of the Coast's truest hindrance. D&D was originally a "gamist" game. It's evolved over the years to incorporate more narrativist and simulationist tendencies, but at it's core, it's still a largely gamist enterprise. The problem is, gamists don't need D&D and wargames anymore like they used to. With this in mind, it is absolutely no surprise to me that "modern" games are incorporating more and more narrativist mechanics and playstyles--because frankly, it's the "sweet spot" for providing a unique creative / cultural / social experience. [/QUOTE]

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