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General Tabletop Discussion
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Why the claim of combat and class balance between the classes is mainly a forum issue. (In my opinion)
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<blockquote data-quote="Marshall" data-source="post: 6240447" data-attributes="member: 765"><p>Except that all of Mistwells points are still correct. No one has ever claimed that D&D is <strong>only</strong> about combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, you are doing it wrong. Or more accurately, you arent doing what you say you are doing. If you're just dressing up and calling yourself a football team, you're not a football team. You're a costume party. If you're lining up and running plays in on a field, you're trying to score a point(as an aside, you're terminology isnt clear on which 'football' you're referring to). Whether you care what the outcome of the game is is irrelevant to you actually playing the game.</p><p></p><p>Back to the point of D&D, You cant play D&D without combat. Period. End of Story. If there is no combat or threat of combat, there is no D&D going on. Eventually, you're going to have combat. The best you can do avoiding combat is to hire proxies to do it for you(then why arent you playing the proxies?) and end up a group of Elminster like NPCs running the world from the background. </p><p></p><p>Again, there is no such thing as a non-combat class. Even 3e commoners get BAB and HD. Aside from that, when the Orcs raid the village they dont look at the commoner and say "You're a non-combat character. Move along." The same goes for the Buffing Rogue and Healing Druid listed earlier in the thread. You can pretend you dont participate in combat, but the Zombies will still eat your brains.</p><p>Those NPC clerics that are pillars of their community that go around blessing babies and casting CLW and Cure Disease all day? They still all have Heavy Armor Prof and swing a mean Mace.</p><p></p><p>Bringing up Wallflowers and Method Actors as examples of those that dont want to participate in combat doesnt actually prove or disprove anything. Wallflowers dont care if their PC is ineffective, true. They also dont care if their PC is effective. Creating what are effectively trap options for PCs that do want effective characters doesnt improve the system. Method Actors want to act out a role, having their acting actually be representative of what their character can do, and actually giving them some guidance on what that is, should improve their enjoyment of the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>ahem, sorry for using you're post to rant at....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marshall, post: 6240447, member: 765"] Except that all of Mistwells points are still correct. No one has ever claimed that D&D is [b]only[/b] about combat. Yes, you are doing it wrong. Or more accurately, you arent doing what you say you are doing. If you're just dressing up and calling yourself a football team, you're not a football team. You're a costume party. If you're lining up and running plays in on a field, you're trying to score a point(as an aside, you're terminology isnt clear on which 'football' you're referring to). Whether you care what the outcome of the game is is irrelevant to you actually playing the game. Back to the point of D&D, You cant play D&D without combat. Period. End of Story. If there is no combat or threat of combat, there is no D&D going on. Eventually, you're going to have combat. The best you can do avoiding combat is to hire proxies to do it for you(then why arent you playing the proxies?) and end up a group of Elminster like NPCs running the world from the background. Again, there is no such thing as a non-combat class. Even 3e commoners get BAB and HD. Aside from that, when the Orcs raid the village they dont look at the commoner and say "You're a non-combat character. Move along." The same goes for the Buffing Rogue and Healing Druid listed earlier in the thread. You can pretend you dont participate in combat, but the Zombies will still eat your brains. Those NPC clerics that are pillars of their community that go around blessing babies and casting CLW and Cure Disease all day? They still all have Heavy Armor Prof and swing a mean Mace. Bringing up Wallflowers and Method Actors as examples of those that dont want to participate in combat doesnt actually prove or disprove anything. Wallflowers dont care if their PC is ineffective, true. They also dont care if their PC is effective. Creating what are effectively trap options for PCs that do want effective characters doesnt improve the system. Method Actors want to act out a role, having their acting actually be representative of what their character can do, and actually giving them some guidance on what that is, should improve their enjoyment of the game. ahem, sorry for using you're post to rant at.... [/QUOTE]
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Why the claim of combat and class balance between the classes is mainly a forum issue. (In my opinion)
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