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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6240498" data-attributes="member: 5143">Honestly, I have NO idea how that is even possible.&nbsp; It takes us longer than 5 minutes in 3e to roll for initiative(after all, you needed to set up the minis on the battle map, the DM had to draw the room, put down all the monsters, describe the monsters, deal with monster knowledge rolls, roll for initiative for each monster, looking up their individual modifiers.&nbsp; Then you'd need to ask every player for their initiative and write them down.&nbsp; If you were using a magnetic init board, you'd need to reorder the participants in order of initiative to make it easier to run the rest of the fight.)I can only assume you fought combats with an EL way below your level or you only played low level games.&nbsp; We had one character who was a Whirling Dervish who took nearly 10 minutes to play his turn alone(I attack with my first attack, I power attack for....let's go with 3.&nbsp; It is my primary weapon, I currently have Greater Magic Weapon on it so it's now a +4 weapon, also the Bless bonus, and...yes, I have flanking from my current position so that makes my bonus...+17, that means I get a 34 to hit.&nbsp; That hits?&nbsp; Alright that means I do 1d8+12 +6 for the power attack, +4 for the Bard song, +1 for Prayer, ok, that's 22 points of damage.&nbsp; I then move to here, which means I have to Tumble past 3 enemies.&nbsp; Watch me make my 3 tumble checks: 22, 17, 18.&nbsp; Those all make it.&nbsp; Now my second of 5 attacks...)I agree.&nbsp; However, rounds took less time in 4e and in 2e.&nbsp; An average round in 3e takes 30 minutes.&nbsp; So battles that are over in a round still take 30-40 minutes.&nbsp; Trust me, I ran Living Greyhawk for years.&nbsp; I'd run 3-5 5-hour long adventures per week.&nbsp; You could time them like clockwork: 3 battles at an hour long each with 2 hours of roleplaying in between.&nbsp; We'd finish at the 5 hour mark almost always.&nbsp; Battles vary, but when you had 3 battles in an adventure, they'd almost always average out to an hour.That certainly didn't happen to me.&nbsp; Most battles were unavoidable.&nbsp; They were monsters that guarded the treasure the PCs wanted or were in a hallway that they needed to walk through.&nbsp; The couple that could be avoided the PCs wouldn't avoid.&nbsp; They wanted the XP and according to the rules you need to defeat the enemies to get XP.&nbsp; Plus, what was the point in having all these cool combat moves if they couldn't show them off?Yep, glad to see the end of &quot;builds&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 6240498, member: 5143"] Honestly, I have NO idea how that is even possible. It takes us longer than 5 minutes in 3e to roll for initiative(after all, you needed to set up the minis on the battle map, the DM had to draw the room, put down all the monsters, describe the monsters, deal with monster knowledge rolls, roll for initiative for each monster, looking up their individual modifiers. Then you'd need to ask every player for their initiative and write them down. If you were using a magnetic init board, you'd need to reorder the participants in order of initiative to make it easier to run the rest of the fight.) I can only assume you fought combats with an EL way below your level or you only played low level games. We had one character who was a Whirling Dervish who took nearly 10 minutes to play his turn alone(I attack with my first attack, I power attack for....let's go with 3. It is my primary weapon, I currently have Greater Magic Weapon on it so it's now a +4 weapon, also the Bless bonus, and...yes, I have flanking from my current position so that makes my bonus...+17, that means I get a 34 to hit. That hits? Alright that means I do 1d8+12 +6 for the power attack, +4 for the Bard song, +1 for Prayer, ok, that's 22 points of damage. I then move to here, which means I have to Tumble past 3 enemies. Watch me make my 3 tumble checks: 22, 17, 18. Those all make it. Now my second of 5 attacks...) I agree. However, rounds took less time in 4e and in 2e. An average round in 3e takes 30 minutes. So battles that are over in a round still take 30-40 minutes. Trust me, I ran Living Greyhawk for years. I'd run 3-5 5-hour long adventures per week. You could time them like clockwork: 3 battles at an hour long each with 2 hours of roleplaying in between. We'd finish at the 5 hour mark almost always. Battles vary, but when you had 3 battles in an adventure, they'd almost always average out to an hour. That certainly didn't happen to me. Most battles were unavoidable. They were monsters that guarded the treasure the PCs wanted or were in a hallway that they needed to walk through. The couple that could be avoided the PCs wouldn't avoid. They wanted the XP and according to the rules you need to defeat the enemies to get XP. Plus, what was the point in having all these cool combat moves if they couldn't show them off? Yep, glad to see the end of "builds" [/QUOTE]

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