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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6241216" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't think this is true. Forge games are played. Forge designers are widely cited as influences. (I mentioned Vincent Baker upthread. I could equally mention Luke Crane, who is cited by Jonathan Tweet for "fail forward" principles in both the 20th anniversary edition of Over the Edge, and in 13th Age.) FATE seems to be reaching a crescendo of popularity, which means a crescendo of popularity for indie-style play. None of that strikes me as failure. These are all typical marks of success for a cultural movement.As I also said, being generally hostile to AD&D 2nd ed doesn't mean you having anything against D&D as such.I read plenty of people who are very specifically hostile to 4e, but I don't infer from that that they hate D&D as such. I am rather hostile to AD&D 2nd ed, but strongly deny that I am hostile to D&D as such, given that I've been playing it in one form or other more-or-less continuously since 1982.<a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forge/index.php?topic=32094.0" target="_blank">Here is a passage from Vinent Baker</a> discussing his experiences with Lamentations of the Flame Princess:Lamentations of the Flame Princess is made of lies . . . Fruitful, fruitful lies. . . Before we started, I had a whole different vision for how the game would go. I expected and wanted something weird-horror-historical, straight up, with the sort of consistent moral underpinning that'd make it horror, you know? . . . But then we sat down to make characters, and ... I dunno. I remarked to Eppy toward the end of character creation that I hadn't expected all this implicit Vance. . . I believed - and still believe! - that this expectation of mine was well-warranted by the game's GMing text. . . If you ask me to point to the particular betrayal in the rules, that I noticed during character creation and pegged as "implicit Vance," I won't be able to do it. I just remember that slow uncomfortable realization that I'd signed up for something I hadn't signed up for. Maybe I'd still get to have my child-eating vampire or whatever, but I sure wouldn't get my precious system-supported, setting-supported moral outrage. Then I remembered how much I love Vance, of course, and how much I'd enjoy trying to channel him, and just how much fun his ironic, cynical relativism is. So now it's great. Anyway, I think that's pretty interesting. When I played Moldvay D&D a few years ago, I could just fill in its spaces with what I wanted to do, but somehow the mis-orientation of Lamentation's GMing text to its actual rules left me with only the one fruitful way to go.Whether or not one agrees with this take on LotFP, I don't see how anyone could read this as hatred of LotFP, or of D&D (of which LotFP is a version).</blockquote>

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