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<blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 6241647" data-attributes="member: 9053">If you're wondering what the crux of this issue that we keep going around in circles about, here it is.As a player, I can roleplay pretty well, and take responsibility for getting what I'm looking for out of a game outside of numbers, or powers, or anything on the character sheet. Playing a lot of games other than D&amp;D taught me this, as did just growing up.At the same time, I very much do keep track of the mechanical aspects to what my character can contribute to the game and how the rules support what I want to do with them. That's the &quot;game&quot; part of RPG. That's not wrong.If the game doesn't support what I want to do, and I must rely on the kindness of the GM, that's fine, as long as all of the other characters are in the same boat. The Amber Diceless roleplay game is very much like this.However, if there's a character who gets spelled out specific rules for how they can be awesome all the time, and my character only gets to do that when I convince the GM that I'm playing correctly, that, in my opinion is a bad ruleset. It's also a bad ruleset when I get to be awesome only as often as the Angel Summoner lets me (that's a BMX Bandit and Angel Summoner reference for ya').I don't expect people to agree with this assessment, but if you don't and simply don't understand how anyone could be a good player and feel this way, you will never be able to get to a conclusion with discussions like this. You'll keep arguing around in circles because both sides are right, they just see things from mutually exclusive positions.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SteveC, post: 6241647, member: 9053"] If you're wondering what the crux of this issue that we keep going around in circles about, here it is. As a player, I can roleplay pretty well, and take responsibility for getting what I'm looking for out of a game outside of numbers, or powers, or anything on the character sheet. Playing a lot of games other than D&D taught me this, as did just growing up. At the same time, I very much do keep track of the mechanical aspects to what my character can contribute to the game and how the rules support what I want to do with them. That's the "game" part of RPG. That's not wrong. If the game doesn't support what I want to do, and I must rely on the kindness of the GM, that's fine, [B]as long as all of the other characters are in the same boat[/B]. The Amber Diceless roleplay game is very much like this. However, if there's a character who gets spelled out specific rules for how they can be awesome all the time, and my character only gets to do that when I convince the GM that I'm playing correctly, that, in my opinion is a bad ruleset. It's also a bad ruleset when I get to be awesome only as often as the Angel Summoner lets me (that's a BMX Bandit and Angel Summoner reference for ya'). I don't expect people to agree with this assessment, but if you don't and simply don't understand how anyone could be a good player and feel this way, you will never be able to get to a conclusion with discussions like this. You'll keep arguing around in circles because both sides are right, they just see things from mutually exclusive positions. [/QUOTE]

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