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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 6241708" data-attributes="member: 463">Yeah, I think that's right. It took me years to work it out, with the benefit of having read&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> My first attempt to run 4e 2009-2011 attempted to shoehorn it into a Gygaxian Naturalism type style, and that worked very poorly.I don't think the 4e designers understood what 4e was good at. Certainly the HPE adventures are terrible, and seem to show a complete lack of understanding - although Dungeon 155's Heathen was a rather good example of what 4e can do, if you cut out a couple fights - framing a 4e adventure around a classic work of literature like Heart of Darkness is a clever way to play to its strengths, as long as scene resolution stays open as with the climactic meeting with Kurtz/Jaryn. But there was a lot more 'Keep on the Shadowfell' than 'Heathen' published by WoTC.3e had its own problems with the game being poorly suited to the assumed 1e style dungeon-delving, but they tended to centre around class balance and only to emerge in play after several levels. The disjunct between 4e's assumed and optimum play styles hits you right away if you try to follow the DMG's adventure-construction advice and example (Kobold Hall).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 6241708, member: 463"] Yeah, I think that's right. It took me years to work it out, with the benefit of having read [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]. :D My first attempt to run 4e 2009-2011 attempted to shoehorn it into a Gygaxian Naturalism type style, and that worked very poorly. I don't think the 4e designers understood what 4e was good at. Certainly the HPE adventures are terrible, and seem to show a complete lack of understanding - although Dungeon 155's [I]Heathen[/I] was a rather good example of what 4e can do, if you cut out a couple fights - framing a 4e adventure around a classic work of literature like [I]Heart of Darkness[/I] is a clever way to play to its strengths, as long as scene resolution stays open as with the climactic meeting with Kurtz/Jaryn. But there was a lot more 'Keep on the Shadowfell' than 'Heathen' published by WoTC. 3e had its own problems with the game being poorly suited to the assumed 1e style dungeon-delving, but they tended to centre around class balance and only to emerge in play after several levels. The disjunct between 4e's assumed and optimum play styles hits you right away if you try to follow the DMG's adventure-construction advice and example (Kobold Hall). [/QUOTE]

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