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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 6241751" data-attributes="member: 463">No, Edwards calls old pre-2e D&amp;D a game aimed at &quot;step on up Gamism&quot; and is ok with that. It's 2e AD&amp;D incoherence he hates - using a Gamist engine but drifting it towards simulation &amp; dramatism.This reminds me of the guys on therpgsite conflating Forgeists with White Wolfers as &quot;storygamers&quot;, even though the Forge's &quot;Story Now&quot; was specifically a reaction against WW style &quot;Story Already Written&quot; Railroading. The Forgeist agenda is very hostile to something like Paizo Adventure Paths, but is fine with pure Gamist play, which is how it characterises Tomb of Horrors and suchlike Gygaxian stuff.Edit: As for Moldvay, the problem is that it's a Gamist game that does not allow for the creation of the dragon-slaying scene described in the intro. It could have done that by being Dramatist in design - intended to create something like a story - or through the possibility of good Gamist play (Combat As War, maybe?) resulting in that scene. But it doesn't do either. You can only get to that scene by the GM not using the rules provided re dragon hp, sword damage etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 6241751, member: 463"] No, Edwards calls old pre-2e D&D a game aimed at "step on up Gamism" and is ok with that. It's 2e AD&D incoherence he hates - using a Gamist engine but drifting it towards simulation & dramatism. This reminds me of the guys on therpgsite conflating Forgeists with White Wolfers as "storygamers", even though the Forge's "Story Now" was specifically a reaction against WW style "Story Already Written" Railroading. The Forgeist agenda is very hostile to something like Paizo Adventure Paths, but is fine with pure Gamist play, which is how it characterises Tomb of Horrors and suchlike Gygaxian stuff. Edit: As for Moldvay, the problem is that it's a Gamist game that does not allow for the creation of the dragon-slaying scene described in the intro. It could have done that by being Dramatist in design - intended to create something like a story - or through the possibility of good Gamist play (Combat As War, maybe?) resulting in that scene. But it doesn't do either. You can only get to that scene by the GM not using the rules provided re dragon hp, sword damage etc. [/QUOTE]

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