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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 6242069" data-attributes="member: 6688937">I don't know that Fate (my personal fave rpg) is the most popular non D&D game on the market right now...although there are probably some good reasons to think so. Savage Worlds also has a pretty good following, and the two circles don't seem to cross much in either distribution or playerbase, so comparisons would be very hard to make without sales data. (I'm also assuming we are considering Pathfinder to be a "D&D game".) Even $$ sales wouldn't help because Fate is available as "Pay what you want". Additionally, both Fate and Savage Worlds are both complete games and engines for running several other games...I don't know how you would want to count those, as even some Fate folks argue about what counts as Fate or not. ICONS and Strands of Fate, for example are often not considered Fate by the Fate community, but are often sold or referred to as Fate systems by others.I will however balk at the idea that "Fate comes from deep within the Forge". Fate is most definitely an evolution of Fudge, which existed well before the Forge, and most of its evolution seems to be from and through that community. The evolution of Fate from Fudge started with Fred Hicks & Rob Donaghue about 1999 and are related to Fred's Amber games. The first relevant discussion on the old Fudge mailing list with discussions about how to "solve" Fudge's problems with people wanting attributes to modify skills as they do in so many other games. The first published efforts towards Fate were in a small e-zine called Fudge Factor, the first articles were called "the Case for Aspects" published, IIRC in 2001. Forge language isn't really a part of that evolution, as far as I can tell (or remember). Evil Hat didn't join the Forge forums until after the first versions of Fate were published. Its fairly obvious from their archived forum posts that they were joining as part of an Indie Press thing, not in the interests of further developing Fate vis-a-vis Forge theory.Which is not to claim that the Evil Hatters are somehow ignorant of Forge theory or anything. Of the games they produce, however, I'd have to say that Fate is the least influenced by the Forge (at least blatantly). I should note here that I have no actual idea whether they were thinking of Forge theory while designing any of their games. You'd have to ask Fred or Rob. However, an indie publisher having a forum on that site isn't, by itself, indicative of coming from "deep within the Forge".</blockquote>

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