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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 6242710" data-attributes="member: 463">I think it's both that (a) many RPGers want process-sim gaming, and 4e is crap at that and(b) The 4e books don't properly set out what 4e is actually good at.Most players and GMs can't be expected to read pemerton on ENW to understand what 4e is good at, the way I did. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> I'd say 4e is basically a Buffy the Vampire slayer style Dramatist (&quot;high concept sim&quot; I think is the Forgespeak) game with a heavy combat engine, but whereas the BtVS game from Eden Studios explains what it's about, 4e simply does not. So people bring along baggage - preconceptions from other games. Most people came to 4e with baggage from 3e and earlier versions of D&amp;D, and then found 4e did that thing really badly, and often disliked the game. People who came to 4e with preconceptions from non-D&amp;D, like you and Manbearcat, did better.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 6242710, member: 463"] I think it's both that (a) many RPGers want process-sim gaming, and 4e is crap at that and (b) The 4e books don't properly set out what 4e is actually good at. Most players and GMs can't be expected to read pemerton on ENW to understand what 4e is good at, the way I did. :D I'd say 4e is basically a Buffy the Vampire slayer style Dramatist ("high concept sim" I think is the Forgespeak) game with a heavy combat engine, but whereas the BtVS game from Eden Studios explains what it's about, 4e simply does not. So people bring along baggage - preconceptions from other games. Most people came to 4e with baggage from 3e and earlier versions of D&D, and then found 4e did that thing really badly, and often disliked the game. People who came to 4e with preconceptions from non-D&D, like you and Manbearcat, did better. [/QUOTE]

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