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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6244984" data-attributes="member: 5143">In my game the disparity started showing its head at around level 5, about the time the Wizard gets 3rd level spells.&nbsp; The disparity just kept getting wider and wider the higher level my players got.This was a fairly average game at around 17th level:Wizard: &quot;Alright, I'll teleport us out of this dungeon and back to town so we can rest for the night at the inn.&nbsp; Then I'll teleport us all back here tomorrow morning after we've had a good breakfast.&nbsp; I have enough spells, I don't care if I waste a couple lower level spells for no good reason.&nbsp; That way we can just pay an NPC in town to heal us and we don't have to worry about saving Cleric spells and they can be used on buffing.&nbsp; In the morning, I cast this list of 5 spells that will last all day on myself.&quot;Cleric &quot;Good, in the morning, Mr DM, I cast this list of 14 spells that all last either 1 hour per level, or 10 minutes per level.&nbsp; Since we don't adventure for more than 3 hours per day, they should all last until the end of the day.&nbsp; Just let me know when the 10 minute per levels one run out.&nbsp; These spells increase my AC to above the fighter, my bonuses to hit above the fighter, my saving throws above the fighters, and I'm immune to all fire, acid, and cold damage for the whole day.&quot;Fighter: &quot;I...have my sword, so I guess I'm set to adventure.&quot;*group teleports into the dungeon for the day, walks down a corridor and opens a door.&nbsp; There is a nasty monster behind it.&nbsp; They roll for initiative*Fighter: &quot;I win initiative.&nbsp; I charge and Power Attack for 5, that seems like a good number.&nbsp; I hit AC 40!&quot;DM: &quot;That misses.&nbsp; It appears to have a large amount of armor.&quot;Fighter: &quot;Then I make 3 more attacks, but all of them are worse: 38, 32, 29&quot;Wizard: &quot;Oh, it has a good AC?&nbsp; Good, I don't need to care about AC.&nbsp; I cast a spell that targets its touch AC instead.&nbsp; I Sudden Maximize my Empowered spell for 135 points of damage.&nbsp; I rolled a 3...crap, that only hits touch AC of 15.&quot;DM: &quot;That hits, his touch AC is 12.&nbsp; Anyways, 135 doesn't quite kill him, he's big and nasty.&quot;Wizard: &quot;Oh, then I Sudden Quicken a second spell.&nbsp; It does only 79 damage.&quot;DM: &quot;Yeah, that's 214 damage.&nbsp; He dies.&quot;Fighter: &quot;Wait, so in addition to the Wizard having the ability to whisk us home from breakfast whenever he wants, he also hit enemies on a 2 that I miss when I roll 14?&nbsp; Then when he hits he does double to triple the damage I would have if I'd managed to hit?&nbsp; This is kind of stupid.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 6244984, member: 5143"] In my game the disparity started showing its head at around level 5, about the time the Wizard gets 3rd level spells. The disparity just kept getting wider and wider the higher level my players got. This was a fairly average game at around 17th level: Wizard: "Alright, I'll teleport us out of this dungeon and back to town so we can rest for the night at the inn. Then I'll teleport us all back here tomorrow morning after we've had a good breakfast. I have enough spells, I don't care if I waste a couple lower level spells for no good reason. That way we can just pay an NPC in town to heal us and we don't have to worry about saving Cleric spells and they can be used on buffing. In the morning, I cast this list of 5 spells that will last all day on myself." Cleric "Good, in the morning, Mr DM, I cast this list of 14 spells that all last either 1 hour per level, or 10 minutes per level. Since we don't adventure for more than 3 hours per day, they should all last until the end of the day. Just let me know when the 10 minute per levels one run out. These spells increase my AC to above the fighter, my bonuses to hit above the fighter, my saving throws above the fighters, and I'm immune to all fire, acid, and cold damage for the whole day." Fighter: "I...have my sword, so I guess I'm set to adventure." *group teleports into the dungeon for the day, walks down a corridor and opens a door. There is a nasty monster behind it. They roll for initiative* Fighter: "I win initiative. I charge and Power Attack for 5, that seems like a good number. I hit AC 40!" DM: "That misses. It appears to have a large amount of armor." Fighter: "Then I make 3 more attacks, but all of them are worse: 38, 32, 29" Wizard: "Oh, it has a good AC? Good, I don't need to care about AC. I cast a spell that targets its touch AC instead. I Sudden Maximize my Empowered spell for 135 points of damage. I rolled a 3...crap, that only hits touch AC of 15." DM: "That hits, his touch AC is 12. Anyways, 135 doesn't quite kill him, he's big and nasty." Wizard: "Oh, then I Sudden Quicken a second spell. It does only 79 damage." DM: "Yeah, that's 214 damage. He dies." Fighter: "Wait, so in addition to the Wizard having the ability to whisk us home from breakfast whenever he wants, he also hit enemies on a 2 that I miss when I roll 14? Then when he hits he does double to triple the damage I would have if I'd managed to hit? This is kind of stupid." [/QUOTE]

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