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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6246373" data-attributes="member: 87792">Someone does even in games like Fate.  They just don't have the only word as they do in games like D&D.I don't see this as that complicated tbh.  That a 50 yard sprint drains your legs much more than your arms, and a set of bicep curls does the reverse.  AEDU is a fudge - but not a terrible one (and head and shoulders above most RPGs this way).  It's not a perfect model, and doesn't try to be.  It's just both simple and better than nothing.Basic general competence is a genre thing.  Fail forward is good general advice.  There is no conflict.If I had a clear definition of a story game, possibly.  For the record I post at Story-games.com, ran Dungeon World for a few months last year, am currently in a Monsterhearts campaign, wrote most of the Wikipedia entries on Fiasco and Grey Ranks (and need to re-write them) and all the *World entries, backed the Torchbearer, Fate Core, and TBZ kickstarters (as well as DW), and only just missed playing A Flower for Mara last night due to not feeling up to it - I know the field fairly well.  My tentative definition of a story game is a game that absolutely minimises rules that don't have a direct impact on play in ways that are narratively distinguishable when you stop looking at rules and numbers.They certainly improve shared visualisation and understanding of the world.  This means they improve shared fiction - and they also improve player empowerment by enabling things to be reflected in the mechanics and fiction and enable teamwork.Because the 3E fighter is at peak performance.  The 4e fighter is pacing themself by using their simplest and most basic techniques, and knows that if they can have time catch their breath they will do better.  The 4e fighter is tired rather than falling over and throwing up exhausted.A definite problem with games other than 4e. Endurance matters.  4e is, as is normal in my experience, a much better simulation of the genre, and of real life than most RPGs (and especially than other D&Ds) - and produces much better narrative results because of it.In 4e it's the rules telling the characters when they are tired enough that they need a five minute break.  It's also the rules, not the players, telling the characters the point at which they are too battered to go on and are about to collapse (run out of healing surges).  Yes, Torchbearer is grittier than 4e.  But if the point was about the rules saying "You need to rest because..." those rules are in 4e - it just doesn't go to the same level of detail.Other than establishing relevant parts of the narrative, dealing with a subset of character motivations (resting and endurance), and a couple of other things iincluding the advantages of the skill challenge for complex plans I'll agree.</blockquote>

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