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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6246561" data-attributes="member: 1210">We'll have to agree to disagree here; to me, if the ending is predetermined, everything else IS unimportant (from the standpoint of an adventure, anyhow). The ability to affect the outcome is the most frustrating aspect of railroading (IMHO). It's all about removing agency from the players. Let's say the adventure is Defend-the-Town-Against-Giants. If the DM knows that, no matter what, the adventure ends with the town successfully defended and all the giants dead, he's not allowing the pcs agency. What if they make a deal with the giants that requires the town to sacrifice a dozen sheep each month? What if they bribe the giants to move? What if, instead of fighting the giants at all, they turn on the town and make themselves its petty tyrants before stripping it of its wealth and leaving it for dead?What if they fall for the first trap and have terrible luck and the giantish guards, by the dice, slay them all?Better still, what if they just leave the town behind, seeking some other adventure? To me, if the pcs are robbed of their ability to make meaningful choices, not only in HOW to approach the adventure but also in WHETHER to bother in the first place, the DM has overstepped his bounds. That isn't up to him. This is very true, and where you draw the line between them very much depends upon playstyle preference. Personally, I favor a much more classic style sandbox, both as a player and a dm.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 6246561, member: 1210"] We'll have to agree to disagree here; to me, if the ending is predetermined, everything else IS unimportant (from the standpoint of an adventure, anyhow). The ability to affect the outcome is the most frustrating aspect of railroading (IMHO). It's all about removing agency from the players. Let's say the adventure is Defend-the-Town-Against-Giants. If the DM knows that, no matter what, the adventure ends with the town successfully defended and all the giants dead, he's not allowing the pcs agency. What if they make a deal with the giants that requires the town to sacrifice a dozen sheep each month? What if they bribe the giants to move? What if, instead of fighting the giants at all, they turn on the town and make themselves its petty tyrants before stripping it of its wealth and leaving it for dead? What if they fall for the first trap and have terrible luck and the giantish guards, by the dice, slay them all? Better still, what if they just leave the town behind, seeking some other adventure? To me, if the pcs are robbed of their ability to make meaningful choices, not only in HOW to approach the adventure but also in WHETHER to bother in the first place, the DM has overstepped his bounds. That isn't up to him. This is very true, and where you draw the line between them very much depends upon playstyle preference. Personally, I favor a much more classic style sandbox, both as a player and a dm. [/QUOTE]

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