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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 6248825" data-attributes="member: 6688937">I agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure how accurate this is. It seems to me that in the games earliest incarnations that XP and leveling are more directly a reflection of rewarding the player for &quot;skillful play&quot; and all that. Much more of a running &quot;score&quot;, than representing something in the fiction of the character. As with many things D&amp;D, as a simple method for emulating something....well its just too simple to do the job well. It doesn't even emulate how things work in fiction most of the time (where character development rather than advancement is far more often the rule of the day.) Nonetheless, even early in the game's history, as people started to push it towards a more story-focused mode of play, people began to interpret XP and advancement in this way.Begin Ramble:&nbsp;Honestly, I think its also one of those areas where D&amp;D (and perhaps moreso all its computerized descendents) have colored the way we (even as a broader culture) look at the fiction. (Would tvtropes include &quot;<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass" target="_blank">Took a level of 8@d@$$</a>&quot; without D&amp;D?)&nbsp;Many is the time, on this board and others, when I've witnessed rather tortured arguments about how XP or levels or HP or a particular class or a class' ability or a spell etc. does a good job emulating this or that about &quot;the genre&quot;. I am often struck by how backwards the thinking is for would-be emulators. That is, if you want to emulate fiction, start with the fiction and work to produce mechanisms for the game....I very much doubt that anything of the kind happened with most of D&amp;D's mechanics. Instead, the mechanics were adapted (from a naval wargame!?!) or developed for the skirmish game, and the fantasy trappings are added around them later. The fact that D&amp;D doesn't address things at the story level is what makes very open-ended abilities like Illusions, Wildshape, or Charm so potentially game-breaking despite the fact that they are the stock and trade of legendary wizardry while artillery-ish* fireballs rarely make an appearance. *I don't think I'm actually aware of anything like D&amp;D's fireballs appearing until the advent of modern artillery had had time to infiltrate authors' minds. Plenty of other goofy fire magic, though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 6248825, member: 6688937"] I agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure how accurate this is. It seems to me that in the games earliest incarnations that XP and leveling are more directly a reflection of rewarding the player for "skillful play" and all that. Much more of a running "score", than representing something in the fiction of the character. As with many things D&D, as a simple method for emulating something....well its just too simple to do the job well. It doesn't even emulate how things work in fiction most of the time (where character development rather than advancement is far more often the rule of the day.) Nonetheless, even early in the game's history, as people started to push it towards a more story-focused mode of play, people began to interpret XP and advancement in this way. Begin Ramble: Honestly, I think its also one of those areas where D&D (and perhaps moreso all its computerized descendents) have colored the way we (even as a broader culture) look at the fiction. (Would tvtropes include "[URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TookALevelInBadass"]Took a level of 8@d@$$[/URL]" without D&D?) Many is the time, on this board and others, when I've witnessed rather tortured arguments about how XP or levels or HP or a particular class or a class' ability or a spell etc. does a good job emulating this or that about "the genre". I am often struck by how backwards the thinking is for would-be emulators. That is, if you want to emulate fiction, start with the fiction and work to produce mechanisms for the game....I very much doubt that anything of the kind happened with most of D&D's mechanics. Instead, the mechanics were adapted (from a naval wargame!?!) or developed for the skirmish game, and the fantasy trappings are added around them later. The fact that D&D [I]doesn't[/I] address things at the story level is what makes very open-ended abilities like Illusions, Wildshape, or Charm so potentially game-breaking despite the fact that they are the stock and trade of legendary wizardry while artillery-ish* fireballs rarely make an appearance. [SIZE=1]*I don't think I'm actually aware of anything like D&D's fireballs appearing [I]until[/I] the advent of modern artillery had had time to infiltrate authors' minds. Plenty of other goofy fire magic, though.[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]

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