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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6249093" data-attributes="member: 48965">Encounter guidelines aren't rules... and players can still bitch about them... when the DM doesn't seem to be following them...Ok, first inherent bonuses are optional and only came later in supplemental material, I responded to a post that said they never had the problem in 4e... which means even before those rules appeared.&nbsp; Second, why wouldn't whether one can purchase a horse or not be under the purview of the DM?&nbsp; A little confused about that one...And I've found the reverse to be generally true in 4e, in other words while 4e may not cause a tpk when following the encounter guidelines, those guidelines also don't seem to offer much, if any, of a challenge once PC's are at paragon and above, when they are used as presented in the book.&nbsp; &nbsp;But the PC's can know this, especially if a DM isn't reskinning or leveling monsters (in the same way it would only be true in 3e if he isn't using class levels, templates or reskinning)... in that situation it works just like 3e.&nbsp; Beyond that PC's know what the encounter guidelines are for their PC's and after playing for a while get a feel for how difficult or not encounters should be.&nbsp; So no, I don't think it's that hard to judge and I've seen pplayers that straight out ask a DM what level was that encounter, when things didn't go their way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6249093, member: 48965"] Encounter [B]guidelines[/B] aren't rules... and players can still bitch about them... when the DM doesn't seem to be following them... Ok, first inherent bonuses are optional and only came later in supplemental material, I responded to a post that said they never had the problem in 4e... which means even before those rules appeared. Second, why wouldn't whether one can purchase a horse or not be under the purview of the DM? A little confused about that one... And I've found the reverse to be generally true in 4e, in other words while 4e may not cause a tpk when following the encounter guidelines, those guidelines also don't seem to offer much, if any, of a challenge once PC's are at paragon and above, when they are used as presented in the book. But the PC's can know this, especially if a DM isn't reskinning or leveling monsters (in the same way it would only be true in 3e if he isn't using class levels, templates or reskinning)... in that situation it works just like 3e. Beyond that PC's know what the encounter guidelines are for their PC's and after playing for a while get a feel for how difficult or not encounters should be. So no, I don't think it's that hard to judge and I've seen pplayers that straight out ask a DM what level was that encounter, when things didn't go their way. [/QUOTE]

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