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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6252422" data-attributes="member: 67338">when we started playing we saw a lot of single class fighters and single class thief characters, by the time WotC bought the game in 98 we would not see either... we still had a few fighter/thief characters but even then if we were planning on it lasting any time, we saw Fighter/Mage and Mage/thief and Fighter/Mage/thief for most of our characters...when 3e came out all those bonus feats were supposed to make fighter feel more fun to play, and it took oly 2 campaigns for us to once again never see a straight non multi classed non caster... yup everyone had longswords in 2e...I agree 100% the perfect zone is level 3-9 in 3e and 3.5 there are still imbalances, but you can go years without noticing.I have played/ran 3 2e games that went above 21, and 4 more that made it to level 15+. In 3e/3.5 I played/ran only 5 total games over level 12, and only 2 of them over 21.you know everytime I see this my jaw drops. how is an 18 anything not super maxed out? you say it is par for the course, but even making characters 4d6 drop the lowest and reroll 1's doesn't guarantee an 18... and that is the most favorable system I have seen. we alternated between 3 methods of stats in both 2e and 3e 1) 3d6 roll 12 numbers take 6 best put them where you want... almost never had an 18 with that. 2) 4d6 drop the lowest roll in order but then 2-1 trade lowering one stat to raise another (ex. take -2 int to get +1 str) or 3) 4d6 drop the lowest roll 7 numbers drop lowest place any order...my 'god'(3.0 adding the divine rank 0) game we used roll 3 columns of roll 4d6 re roll 1's and 2's drop lowest 7 numbers per column... and I still had to add "If you don't have an 18 your highest roll becomes an 18" because of the 7 players (yes big group) we had 2 PCs with no 18's....I've in almost 20 years only seen 2 18/00 strs, and one we know for sure cheated... (he rolled then begged to be allowed to have the 00 because had never gotten an 18 str fighter and since up to that point we had never seen an 18 str fighter the DM said 'go for it') I can't remember a single fighter who didn't have it by 3rd level (and I would say most had it at first) well I wouldn't say standard, I did see a lot of them. I don't remember them having anything for fighters... was it a kit or something that was broken?</blockquote>

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