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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ohmyn" data-source="post: 7626369" data-attributes="member: 6999115">Because we're not talking about "no win scenarios". Have you never seen a situation where a villain has hostages, and the hero has to choose between pursuing the villain, or saving the hostages? If you character possesses a tenet to protect life, even this can create a moral dilemma for the Paladin in the heat of the moment. Heck, the Book of Vile Darkness in 3.5 had an NPC that had chains hanging off of their body that transferred damage over to hostages that were chained to them. This creates quite the moral dilemma for any good character.Heck, just look at the Joker in The Dark Knight. He wanted to break Batman, to prove he wasn't truly so righteous. It's pretty common in the lore of devils that they enjoy torturing those who are good, and prefer to tempt or trick those who are most righteous. That's typically even something written into the modern Monster Manuals.Also, having to choose between a devil and demon also does not have to mean they do something bad. What if the Paladin makes a deal that saves the lives on an entire kingdom from an evil creature they otherwise know they cannot stop? The PHB literally states that the Paladin is not infallible, and sometimes will have to choose between the lesser of two evils, or even abandon their tenets entirely if something else comes up that they feel is important enough.If the morality of a Paladin is never challenged, then it's super easy to be a Paladin in that universe. It must be nice to have such accommodating devils and liches in the world, so much so that they never have a contingency plan against moral crusaders, which is perhaps the most common trope of nearly every villain ever.Also, these things don't have to be targeted against a Paladin. Things can just so happen to exist in a premade campaign setting that a player is going to have to choose how to deal with. Sometimes the players get ahead of themselves, and that can lead to a situation where they have to make an extreme decision that perhaps not even the DM considered; the DM doesn't have a duty to coddle them if this happens.Also, I find the irony in this statement, given that it's exactly what I and those agreeing with me have been arguing in defense for this entire time. The player makes the decision when it comes up, not the DM. If the DM tells me I literally can't put on metal armor under any situation, then they're denying me an option that my character could otherwise make. I consider it no different than telling a Paladin that he can't, or must, break their oaths.</blockquote>

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