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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 3190889" data-attributes="member: 2020">I have no sympathy for high level parties (or even mid level parties) that get a Mordenkainen's Disjunction / Mage's Disjunction thrown at them.  The only regret I have is that items are now allowed a saving throw:  in the old version, NO save and NO appeal.  If the party is going to DELIBERATELY provoke the anger of an archmage, what should they expect?  If the party is going to bring all their magical items along, what should they expect?  (in the old days, a simple Fireball could Demagick the party.)  If the party is going to make no preparations for such a dark day, what should they expect?  Most liches are stay at home types.  If you don't bother them, they won't bother you.  If you *insist* on bothering them, then ... well ... they get mad.  Most archmages are not concerned with adventurers (they have other archmages to contend with, plus insundry assorted plotting, magical item creation, and other things.)  But if a party must crash an archmage's stronghold, then ... well ... a certain fate is decreed.  Back in my day, if all you got nailed with was Mordenkainen's Disjunction, you were LUCKY.  In 3.0, you'd be even MORE LUCKY as the wizard is more powerful than in 2E.  Would you prefer, perhaps, the old Time Stop?  (TPK, no appeal, game over.)  Would you prefer, perhaps, Gate?  (Demogorgon shows up, TPK ensues.)  Would you prefer, perhaps, Internal Fires (burnt to a cinder along with all items, no save.)  Or how about the old Bigby's Crushing Hand (squashed to a pulp, no save), Blade in the Soul (puppet of enemy wizard or death, your choice, no save), Prismatic Sword (take a wild guess!), Algarth's Embattlement (4 disintegrates hurled simultaneously at the whole party), or how about the old Shapechange (enemy mage turns into tarrasque, eats party) or Prismatic Sphere (enemy mage is invincible) or the old Power Word Kill (insta-kill, no save, no resurrection)?  Nay.  If all it is, is Mage's Disjunction (even if all your items are toast because the DM uses the old version of the spell) you can at least use Wishes to regain those lost items.  If it's a TPK, there isn't terribly much you can do.  Back in my day, here were some of the things you could do to avoid Mordenkainen's Disjunction / Mage's Disjunction:  Have a Periap of Proof Against Detection and Location  Use other defenses against magical detection  Use decoys (especially high level ones or powerful monsters, inadvertently drawn into your mess)  Antimagic Shell and Antimagic Zone.  Divination (it might work, since the lich is busy and not expecting anyone to be so insane as to bother him:  you might locate him and effect a surprise attack.)  Some of the clerical spells out of the old 2nd Edition Tome of Magic (one will turn the Mordenkainen's Disjunction right back at the casting wizard.  Another makes you immune to any spells cast in your vicinity:  you are not in the same plane of existence, even though you can step out into it at any time.)  Wish and Limited Wish.  Spell Turning.  Winning Initiative (Yes, that Improved Initiative Feat goes a long ways here!!!)  If all that fails, running sometimes works.  Better yet, getting down on your knees and begging for mercy is an option (archmages are proud and arrogant types, and tend to show 'mercy' to boost their own egos.)  If you are just going to waltz up to an archmage, confront him at 20 paces (Western gunfight style), and have at it, expect to be royally roughed over.  Finally, REMEMBER that most archmages have Clones or even Stasis Clones available (not to mention clerical friends with Resurrection), so after you kill the wizard ... he returns, finds out who killed him, and then you have a much bigger problem than Mage's Disjunction to deal with (such as, he intends to capture your soul and put it into a Flask of Fiery Burning, and leave it there for the next couple of millennia.  You DO have that Periap of Proof Against Detection and Location, right? ...)</blockquote>

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