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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Why the fear and hatred of Disjunction?
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<blockquote data-quote="Slaved" data-source="post: 3196186" data-attributes="member: 43358"><p>I disagree fully with your conclusion. The reasons are posted earlier though.</p><p></p><p>Going over some peoples comments and looking through my own games I have both run and been in for quite a number of years now I can confidently say that there were about 3 artifacts total, major and minor, that would've had a chance of being with the party. Only one actually was for any length of time though and given that dm he would've ruled that the artifact was immune to disjunction anyway.</p><p></p><p>I agree with nadaka, it is just too dm dependent. I would expect in a fairly average game for there to not be any artifacts in the party. And I am still confused as to how mortal magic can destroy things so far beyond mortal magic.</p><p></p><p>Going through the numbers though we have the following.......</p><p></p><p>Disjunction caster level 17 = 17% chance to effect an artifact</p><p>A character at this level is rather likely to have a +5 resistance item, likely more but we will go with the basics. That gives about a +16 vs the disjunction spell vs DC 30 (a guess, it could be higher but then it could also be lower, this is a stat of 32, if a mage was really worried about artifacts he could remove his +6 int item before casting)</p><p>After that if the artifact is destroyed then the mage gets a saving through. His will save bonus is very likely to be much higher than +16 but we will go with that here.</p><p></p><p>0.17*0.65*0.4=0.04 which is about 4%</p><p></p><p>This is pretty much baseline. I would expect the mage to have at least a +20 on his will save and if artifacts are so incredibly common in the world that this is actually a worry then he could also have a couple of luck blades on hand.</p><p></p><p>That was also a minor artifact with only a 18th caster level. They do go higher and artifacts as listed as only having one means of destruction which should be very difficult, it is kindof sad that any 17th level mage has such an easy time of it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I meant to comment on this earlier, how is this equal at all?</p><p></p><p>Yes, they are both 9th level, but one of them is 9th level + 5k exp while the other is simply 9th level.</p><p></p><p>Plus the one that lacks an exp cost has <em>even more effects</em> than just that. So it is one spell + massive exp cost undoing part of the damage of a single spell without an exp cost.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Slaved, post: 3196186, member: 43358"] I disagree fully with your conclusion. The reasons are posted earlier though. Going over some peoples comments and looking through my own games I have both run and been in for quite a number of years now I can confidently say that there were about 3 artifacts total, major and minor, that would've had a chance of being with the party. Only one actually was for any length of time though and given that dm he would've ruled that the artifact was immune to disjunction anyway. I agree with nadaka, it is just too dm dependent. I would expect in a fairly average game for there to not be any artifacts in the party. And I am still confused as to how mortal magic can destroy things so far beyond mortal magic. Going through the numbers though we have the following....... Disjunction caster level 17 = 17% chance to effect an artifact A character at this level is rather likely to have a +5 resistance item, likely more but we will go with the basics. That gives about a +16 vs the disjunction spell vs DC 30 (a guess, it could be higher but then it could also be lower, this is a stat of 32, if a mage was really worried about artifacts he could remove his +6 int item before casting) After that if the artifact is destroyed then the mage gets a saving through. His will save bonus is very likely to be much higher than +16 but we will go with that here. 0.17*0.65*0.4=0.04 which is about 4% This is pretty much baseline. I would expect the mage to have at least a +20 on his will save and if artifacts are so incredibly common in the world that this is actually a worry then he could also have a couple of luck blades on hand. That was also a minor artifact with only a 18th caster level. They do go higher and artifacts as listed as only having one means of destruction which should be very difficult, it is kindof sad that any 17th level mage has such an easy time of it. I meant to comment on this earlier, how is this equal at all? Yes, they are both 9th level, but one of them is 9th level + 5k exp while the other is simply 9th level. Plus the one that lacks an exp cost has [i]even more effects[/i] than just that. So it is one spell + massive exp cost undoing part of the damage of a single spell without an exp cost. [/QUOTE]
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Why the fear and hatred of Disjunction?
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