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<blockquote data-quote="Elemental" data-source="post: 3199457" data-attributes="member: 7931">Imprisonment, Gate and Miracle aren't powerful? Uh-huh. And powerful though they are, none of them have the permanent crippling ability of MDJ.Bringing in Wish is a non sequitur. Wish will screw the players if the DM chooses to have it screw the players or if they go beyond the clearly stated safe limits. MDJ will screw the players if it's used as written. And remember which spell has the 5000 XP cost.So why are these PC's facing great challenges when they could just be beating up level 10 parties and taking their stuff, all the time? Maybe if the world operates like an MMORPG, where there are zones designated for certain levels.I literally cannot understand this mindset. Better to scrap a whole campaign that was going brilliantly up until the Disjunction, then houserule a broken spell?In discussions about broken spells, there usually seem to be two schools of thought:1: Houserule it.2: Wildly exaggerate every possible disadvantage (&quot;Gee, that NPC was carrying an artifact around too?&quot;) and make up some completely new ones to make the spell as impractical as possible without actually changing it.Heck, I remember when people were arguing 3.0 Harm was balanced because of course, every enemy would be carrying around a Ring of Counterspells and have access to the spell themselves.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Elemental, post: 3199457, member: 7931"] Imprisonment, Gate and Miracle aren't powerful? Uh-huh. And powerful though they are, none of them have the permanent crippling ability of MDJ. Bringing in Wish is a non sequitur. Wish will screw the players if the DM chooses to have it screw the players or if they go beyond the clearly stated safe limits. MDJ will screw the players if it's used as written. And remember which spell has the 5000 XP cost. So why are these PC's facing great challenges when they could just be beating up level 10 parties and taking their stuff, all the time? Maybe if the world operates like an MMORPG, where there are zones designated for certain levels. I literally cannot understand this mindset. Better to scrap a whole campaign that was going brilliantly up until the Disjunction, then houserule a broken spell? In discussions about broken spells, there usually seem to be two schools of thought: 1: Houserule it. 2: Wildly exaggerate every possible disadvantage ("Gee, that NPC was carrying an artifact around too?") and make up some completely new ones to make the spell as impractical as possible without actually changing it. Heck, I remember when people were arguing 3.0 Harm was balanced because of course, every enemy would be carrying around a Ring of Counterspells and have access to the spell themselves. :p [/QUOTE]

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