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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 7325967" data-attributes="member: 6932123">I agree that cleric could fit under the wizard category. Mechanically, there are only three main concepts:1) Fighter (martial)2) Rogue (skills)3) Wizard (magic)And then you can subdivide them into how they do their thing.  With magic, for example: the Wizard studies; a Bard is a Wizard that entertains (the Bard would still have to study to get good at their skills, just like the Wizard); the Sorcerer "just knows" how to cause magical effects, and manipulates things instinctively; the Warlock makes a pact with an otherworldly entity that will grant him power; the Cleric makes a pact with an acceptable otherworldly entity (called a god) that will grant him power; the Druid makes a pact with a worldly (literally) entity for power; and so forth.  Particular source entity types get their own category of magic: nature for the world magic, or divine for god-supplied magic.  Otherwise it's 'arcane'.And you can keep expanding from there.However the four-class categorization is something different.  It's not actually a mechanical separation, even though it looks very nearly like that.  You can see this by looking at the Cleric — a magic user that's not under the standard magic user category (Wizard). That's because the cleric's role encompasses a particularly important need for most parties — healing — and that's important enough to set off to the side from the others.  So it's really more accurate to say that, rather than a four-class system, it's more about it being a four-role system.1) Hits things2) Heals people3) Finds stuff4) Breaks the limitsFighter is role 1: Make the opposition go away.  The other party members can help, but that's the Fighter's primary task.Cleric is role 2: We're going to get hurt; make the hurting stop.  Also, undead are bad.Rogue is role 3: Find the traps, listen in on conversations, know a guy who knows a guy, etc.  He can also hit things, but more as support for the fighter, not replacement for the fighter.Wizard is role 4: Break the laws of reality.  Invisibility, massive explosions, flight, conjure a fog, locate object, etc.  The Wizard is James Bond's Q, or the director who changed the scene to "something more interesting".  The Wizard is the lever of change.The 'how' of things is not answered by this breakdown.  There are many options available.The Fighter's role is to stop opposition from getting to your party, and make the opposition go away.  That can be filled by a Paladin, or a raging Barbarian, or the armored up Cleric, or the Assassin, or the buffed up Sorcerer, or a multitude of other things.The Cleric's role can most easily be done by a Cleric, but maybe also by a Monk, or a Sorcerer, or just a plain old Fighter with lots of medical skills and potions.The Rogue's role comes down to the player.  Which person in the group engages most in all the sneaky stuff?  Who finds the right bar for all the rumors?  Who has connections in every city you visit?And the Wizard's role can be done by anyone with access to magic.  It's part of why hybrid classes are so popular: they give you the ability to break the rules.  Whoever knows how to break the right rules at the right time is the Wizard.So the problem with the categorization is that people are trying to simplify two different concepts (mechanical nicety vs party roles) at the same time, and stumbling, because what you need to focus on to get one to work well isn't the same as what you need to focus on for the other.</blockquote>

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