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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7326148" data-attributes="member: 6704184">Even most CRPGs have specialisations within those classes that are basically more classes. And most of the time it feels kludgey when compared to making those things into full classes you can take at level 1. Take Dragon Age. A good portion into the game you can specialize. I mostly play rogues in DA, bc I don’t enjoy the play style of the other two classes, so I’ll stick with that for examples. If you want to play a ranger, you play as a rogue for most of the first half of the game, and then all of a sudden get a pet and some rangery stuff. It’s weird. And the character is still 70% or more rogue. It isn’t even successful in the goal of specialitions meaning anything about your character. On the other hand, you’ve got games like Star Wars Saga Edition, where you have five classes, and most talents to choose from than you could use over the course of a hundred characters, and th classes have essentially no identity. There is no real reason to not multiclass, everyone falls into habits of starting classes for the skills and MC a couple levels of Soldier or Jedi to make up the BAB and HP while grabbing combat feats and a talent or two, unless the weird PrC requirements take up all your talents and feats from levels 1-7. I love that system, but it has some major flaws that mostly flow out the interaction of dnd sacred cows and the idea that a small number of classes is inherently simpler and easier to use. Trying to put that sort of philosophy into a structure like DnD, without having something like talents or powers and every class having the same basic structure (which people despised in 4e because it wasn’t DnDing correctly or whatever), just won’t work. Subclasses are bad enough. It’s super weird and kludgy that I go from being a magic nerd to a graceful sword dancing barefoot goddess of war at level 2. It’s even weirder that I suddenly have a pet at level 3 when player a ranger. Or am able to be a ritualistic scholar with a Fey mentor and a magic book at level 3, but I can’t start out that way. It means I basically can’t make that my character concept unless we start at 3, or I have to find an excuse to not...have my magic book or know anything about ritual magic. But at least we can just start at level 3, and most concepts that feel like starting concepts can actually be starting concepts. If I had to pick a subclass or feats or just...reflavored the whole class? To make a warlock *at all*, I’d just play a different game.</blockquote>

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