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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 9479732" data-attributes="member: 4348">Much of this post is weird.So, to extrapolate...I'll write the story of the longest name of a game in D&D that no one ever uses...and why.Back then, we did both.  I've explained this numerous times, but I guess I'll explain it again.Then, with OD&D...a character could do all that.  They could walk quietly, they could Hide, they could climb, they could even try to listen at a door.  What they could NOT do was Hide in a shadow that was just that...a mere shadow of a person or something.  They couldn't move absolutely silently.  They couldn't climb a sheer wall....etc.So, to Walk quietly...you had to roll under the Dex Ability score or however the DM ruled it. This wasn't a mystery.  It was not some highly held secret.So then....the thief arrives.  What does this mean?  Well...obviously it does NOT mean that we suddenly all forgot how to try to play hide and seek.  That would be dumb.  That would be stupid.  No one thought that way.It just meant that this new class had new abililties BEYOND what we already played with.  Thus...the thief could try to move absolutely silently...but if they failed...well...they could still try to move quietly.  They basically got double rolls.OR...another way of doing it was that the Thief would accomplish these things automatically unless they were challenged...or had to do it under pressure...OR...another way of doing it was that not only would the Thief accomplish normal things automatically (such as moving quietly), they could also try for the supernatural idea of hiding in the Monster's shadow when it wasn't looking...etc.Unfortunately, the AD&D rulebooks were not that clear on this...and then we got an entire generation that thought differently and hence was born the idea that no one could play hide and seek anymore...or if they did they only could do it by rolling on the lowest tier of the thief ability tables.And thus..in D&D....the game of Hide and Seek was never again really played as it became..."I can't hide so you can automatically find me no matter what I do...so why even seek".  Yeah....it's kind of a long name for a game...but since no one ever played it again...there was never a need to shorten it anymore. People obviously thought that playing "I can't hide so you can automatically find me no matter what I do....so why even seek" kind of foolish, so in later editions (3e and onwards) they tried to repair this by...first changing how these skills worked...and then second...by making it so that it was no longer the sole domain of Thieves and Rogues.  The Skill system of 3e made it so that it was more easily accessible and changed it from being a Thief skill...to something Rogues specialized in, and later changes made it more easy for anyone to do any skill a Rogue could do. But the problem then came...if anyone can do these things....why do we even have Rogues in the first place???  The answer...so we can have them do SNEAK ATTACKS...obviously.  Rogue just became another name for some sneaky (word I probably shouldn't use so I won't) who was a martial with slightly less HP who would stab sneakily in your vitals while you tried to do in his friend.Interestingly enough, even with that change...we still haven't had that big of a rise in the game of "I can't hide so you can automatically find me no matter what I do...so why even seek".  Probably, because with the new rules it became more of a..."Hide and Seek, but only for those who are Dexterous and wise."  Which is an improvement on the other one...as the name is shorter (obviously), but still not quite as popular as Hide and seek used to be.And that's the story of the long name of the game in D&D that no one uses...but should.</blockquote>

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