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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 9482831" data-attributes="member: 63508">You can't create a process until you know what the process is supposed to refer to. That was the core issue with how thieves had low ability to do their skills in the first place because there was no actual reference to say how skilled A level 1 thief was supposed to be. Creating a rule without a reference for the rule can easily create a rule that does not work as the gamers intended. See multiple editions of D&D.The thief cannot lock out the fighter or wizard's ability to sneak if the fighter and Wizard are sourced from a reference that says they can sneak. Because if the thief locks out the fighter or wizard's ability to do sneaking or unlocking traps but the source of the tropes that the fighter and wizard come from says that they can then you can point to the source and say that the rule for the thief is bad.The fact that there was no source or the source was so obscure within the community meant that one the thief was added in no one could point to anything to say that "hey. this doesn't look like it matches up with our expectations".The thief debate purely lives in the fact that there's a gray area about what the thief is supposed to be in the first place. Without that gray area, there's no debate.</blockquote>