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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7570454" data-attributes="member: 6775031">Complexity is a bad thing. It always has been, and it always will be. Complexity is the cost of playing. It is the amount of work you have to put in, before you get any results from the system. In an ideal system, you wouldn't have to do any work, and you'd get exactly the results that you want the system to give you. No system is ideal, which is why every game has some degree of complexity.Whenever you accept a certain amount of complexity from a game, the trade-off is that you can achieve more of your other goals for the game. Maybe it increases the detail of resolution; a more-complex system can tell you that you hit someone in the left shoulder, where a less-complex system may only tell you that you hit them. Maybe it increases your character customization; instead of playing a Fighter, you can play a two-weapon samurai with a particular faction affiliation that synergizes particularly well. There is good to be had from complexity, because it gives you a bigger budget to afford details in your game.In the beginning, game were fairly complex, because they were poorly-optimized. I'm not going to fault Gygax or anyone else for that. They were doing something new, and they were mostly playing it by ear. Throughout the eighties, games became even more complex. Everyone had an idea for how to do things better, but that meant modeling more detailed realities, rather than optimizing the system design. It wasn't until the late nineties (or so) that people really started questioning the inherent complexity, and figuring out how much of it was truly necessary in order to give them the resolution they wanted.When I was young, I played Shadowrun (2E and 3E), because the setting was cool. I had no idea how complex it was, because it was the first game I really played (aside from Palladium Robotech), so I just figured that's how games were. I wanted to play in that setting, so I agreed to pay the complexity cost. I didn't know there were any alternatives.I recently read through the Shadowrun 5E rulebook, and for the first time, I realized how poorly-optimized it is. I don't think the complexity or resolution have changed much over the decades, but the sheer amount of work involved in getting anything done is staggering. I can't play Shadowrun anymore, because unlike when I was a kid, I know that I have alternatives. I can see how inefficient the rules are, and I don't want to put in that much work to get so little done.I think a lot of other people are in a similar position. They accepted complexity in the past, because they didn't know that there were any alternatives, but now they know better and they've moved on to games that deliver better on what they want. Either they don't need the detail of resolution, and they've moved on to rules-lite games, or they like that level of resolution and have simply found games that are more efficient about delivering it. Nowadays, the only ones who stick with high-complexity games are the ones who absolutely want a high level of detail, or who care more about the IP and are willing to endure the complexity in order to have it.</blockquote>

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