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<blockquote data-quote="Deset Gled" data-source="post: 7581897" data-attributes="member: 7808">Well, to start with, I'm well past the first round of questions and deep in to the discussion of exactly what makes something &quot;rules light&quot;.&nbsp; I think the answer is highly subjective, which makes the OPs question harder to answer.And, honestly, yes, I can think of calls for all of those things on this very message board.Re: Tools.&nbsp; One thing some people dislike about OD&amp;D is a reliance on tables.&nbsp; For them, adding more tables (tools) is seen as adding complexity.&nbsp; For those that prefer tables, tables are less complex than reliance on complex formulas for everything.&nbsp; For another example, one of the big concerns about 4e was how much it pushed people to rely on the Character Builder, DDI, and other online tools as part of playing.&nbsp; For people who were used to books only and had a &quot;no screens&quot; rule at a game table, these tools were seen as complex technology that removed focus from the table.&nbsp; For players that used the CB and online tools heavily, it was a great way to get away from the complexity of looking things up in books all the time.Re: Customer Support.&nbsp; Every seen a thread arguing about a Sage article?&nbsp; How about rulings in any of the &quot;Living ###&quot; communities?&nbsp; Does having a guru in charge of questions make things simpler for answering questions, or harder to stay on top of the rules when a Sage ruling contradicts the rule books?&nbsp; Did the many Shape Change errata makes things simpler for 3.5e druids?Re: Writing quality.&nbsp; There have been many threads here about the tone and writing styles of the various versions of D+D.&nbsp; Some people prefer the more literary tones of Gygax, because it's simpler to pull the style of the game from the text.&nbsp; Others prefer game manuals to read like stereo instructions and be as dry as possible.&nbsp; This requires all game flavor to be added in as a module.&nbsp; Which style is more &quot;rules light&quot;?Clearly, some of these are bigger factors that others.&nbsp; My main point here is that TTRPGs are an experience, and complexity can come from anywhere.&nbsp; If you focus on just the core mechanic, d20 and WEG d6 are the exact same complexity: role dice, compare to a number, determine result.&nbsp; Everything else around the mechanics also plays a factor in how complex the game is perceived.Is there a difference in &quot;hate for complexity&quot; and &quot;hate for apparent complexity&quot;?&nbsp; <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?206178-4E-Shifting-complexity-rather-than-simplifying" target="_blank">If we just move the complexity around enough, does a complex system become &quot;rules light&quot;?</a></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Deset Gled, post: 7581897, member: 7808"] Well, to start with, I'm well past the first round of questions and deep in to the discussion of exactly what makes something "rules light". I think the answer is highly subjective, which makes the OPs question harder to answer. And, honestly, yes, I can think of calls for all of those things on this very message board. Re: Tools. One thing some people dislike about OD&D is a reliance on tables. For them, adding more tables (tools) is seen as adding complexity. For those that prefer tables, tables are less complex than reliance on complex formulas for everything. For another example, one of the big concerns about 4e was how much it pushed people to rely on the Character Builder, DDI, and other online tools as part of playing. For people who were used to books only and had a "no screens" rule at a game table, these tools were seen as complex technology that removed focus from the table. For players that used the CB and online tools heavily, it was a great way to get away from the complexity of looking things up in books all the time. Re: Customer Support. Every seen a thread arguing about a Sage article? How about rulings in any of the "Living ###" communities? Does having a guru in charge of questions make things simpler for answering questions, or harder to stay on top of the rules when a Sage ruling contradicts the rule books? Did the many Shape Change errata makes things simpler for 3.5e druids? Re: Writing quality. There have been many threads here about the tone and writing styles of the various versions of D+D. Some people prefer the more literary tones of Gygax, because it's simpler to pull the style of the game from the text. Others prefer game manuals to read like stereo instructions and be as dry as possible. This requires all game flavor to be added in as a module. Which style is more "rules light"? Clearly, some of these are bigger factors that others. My main point here is that TTRPGs are an experience, and complexity can come from anywhere. If you focus on just the core mechanic, d20 and WEG d6 are the exact same complexity: role dice, compare to a number, determine result. Everything else around the mechanics also plays a factor in how complex the game is perceived. Is there a difference in "hate for complexity" and "hate for apparent complexity"? [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?206178-4E-Shifting-complexity-rather-than-simplifying"]If we just move the complexity around enough, does a complex system become "rules light"?[/URL] [/QUOTE]

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