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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ravellion" data-source="post: 18701" data-attributes="member: 538">Re: FRI work in a bloody gamestore for **** sake! I have read three incarnations of the FR, as well as DM'ed 5 campaigns in it, and I have about 15 FR novels under my belt! Yes, there are reasons for the geography being the way it is. Nevertheless, suspension of disbelief does quite often shatter when the players of the PC's don't know about these things (and their characters probably do not either) and in a short journey travel through all the climate types, with cultures who irrealistically don't mix with each other if you play them right out of the book. I am happy to say that I played 2nd edition Dragonlance right out the book. It needed no altering whatsoever. They just had to remember one big mountain fell out of the sky to punish mortals, and since then, life sucked big time. (Although my vision of DL is perhaps more gritty than that of most)I don't mind the multitude of pantheons, I dislike the main one. Besides, this is were "Realism" (because small pantheons are just as realistic, not less so) really gets in the way. Someone new to FR has real trouble getting to know each deity. This isn't a problem in, say, Hindu society, because those people live that religion. But the depth and extensiveness can be a real pain for a new player playing a biweekly game. I even see veterans switch gods' portfolios, dogma, alignment, alliances. I played in the FR for about a year with one group, and I think that by the end I could mention Lathander and Helm and they would know. In three months, the PHB pantheon was second nature to them. The same group did DL without reading the novels, and picked up on the pantheon almost immediatly.I have found Level 8 wizards with 90% unsaveable DCs against most CR 8 opponents a case of power inflation (ie. shadow magic PrC with greater spell penetration, spellcasting prodigy). Perhaps your palyers don't min max enough to show the flaws of some of the possibilities in the FR. Then it would't be noticed. But even on paper, this is easily spotted, so I can't see how such a flaw has gotten past an otherwise exelently published and designed book.About the "munch... errr.... epic" remark. My apologies, it was meant in jest, since I do not see the need for level 21+ gaming. The FR NPCs are mostly to blame for the view that it doesn't stop there I think. To come back to DL, People knew full well that level 18 was the limit. Done. All your arguments that "Epic level characters are the prime movers and shakers"  are proven wrong in most of the campaign worlds. Didn't the original DS have this big dragon as a prime mover? GH's circle of 9 is mostly high teens, and they can move and shake all they need to. Spells can be perfectly researched by level 17 characters...  in fact, if you are truly the first wizard, it seems quite logical that you would do it at level 17, not at 20+... might as well get 4 levels of use out of those spells now, don't you think?Now, to come back to the topic: "I game in the realms, but I changed X..." There is a certain (mostly undefinable) line I draw when I consider it no longer the campaign world as published. When the recent history published is considered ancient history in the world, it has lost most of its impact. Quick! Who was the ruler of France in 1000AD? Right, even if you remember, you probably don't care, or at least don't live your life constantly aware of that fact. The current FR still live with the big legacy of the Time of Troubles. In a 1000 years, new facts will become important. Instead of the battle of Hastings, or the printing of the Gutenberg bible being really important in our day to day lives, terrorism, the emergence of the internet or election scandals become an important backdrop. It really becomes an entirely different animal after a 1000 year leap. A 10-30 year leap would still qualify as "Playing in the FR" in my view. You can still use more than 50% of the book then.I'll happily defend my opinion again, since that is what it is, an opinion. No need to get bent all out of shape, I am not even a FR hater. I just dislike certain features of it, so choose to cannibalize it instead. Magic of Fearun is very good for that purpose.Rav</blockquote>

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