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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5347768" data-attributes="member: 22424">I've recently seen it build a Str-based Barbarian, only to max out his Cha instead, and build a character with loads of sword-focused feats, only to fail to equip him with a sword. I feel pretty comfortable labelling those badly suboptimal.We have just started a new campaign with a mixed group. Given that we're expecting to play those characters long-term are you really suggesting that the experienced players should deliberately nerf their characters? (And potentially find themselves playing characters that they're really not happy with for months.)That is what you are suggesting, after all.(The way we dealt with this? The newbies explained the type of character they wanted, and the DM built it for them. But that, frankly, isn't a good solution - it's just the least-worst option available.)Agreed. But if they don't have the experience, they have no basis on which to determine which were the poor choices, and what they should have done differently. And if they hate their first session due to having a bad character, then they won't stick around to fix their bad choices... they'll just do something else instead.What's most likely is that the newbie player will sit at the experienced player's PC and use his installation. Of course, that would be the fully-updated version, with all the options.You've just said that your experienced group had trouble dealing with all the options. In that case, can you not see how it might be a problem for new players?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="delericho, post: 5347768, member: 22424"] I've recently seen it build a Str-based Barbarian, only to max out his Cha instead, and build a character with loads of sword-focused feats, only to fail to equip him with a sword. I feel pretty comfortable labelling those badly suboptimal. We have just started a new campaign with a mixed group. Given that we're expecting to play those characters long-term are you really suggesting that the experienced players should deliberately nerf their characters? (And potentially find themselves playing characters that they're really not happy with [i]for months[/i].) That is what you are suggesting, after all. (The way we dealt with this? The newbies explained the type of character they wanted, and the DM built it for them. But that, frankly, isn't a good solution - it's just the least-worst option available.) Agreed. But if they don't have the experience, they have no basis on which to determine which were the poor choices, and what they should have done differently. And if they hate their [i]first session[/i] due to having a bad character, then they won't stick around to fix their bad choices... they'll just do something else instead. What's most likely is that the newbie player will sit at the experienced player's PC and use his installation. Of course, that would be the fully-updated version, with all the options. You've just said that your experienced group had trouble dealing with all the options. In that case, can you not see how it might be a problem for new players? [/QUOTE]

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