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<blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 1477972" data-attributes="member: 16285">I think that the cleric is acually the class with the weakest balance as far as choices and progressoin benefits go.The &quot;only&quot; choices a cleric character gets is at 1st level when his domains are chosen.&nbsp; If playing a a cleric of a specific deity then he can choose 2 from 4 or 5 choices and that is all.&nbsp; The only thing that a cleric character gains when progressing in levels is more spells and a greater number of spells. He doesn't even get to choose the spells he gains - he automatically knows all of the ones on his list (including his domain spells).&nbsp; This is not an argument over whether or not the cleric is the most powerful class only an issue on level gained abilities.All of the other classes (except for sorcerer) gain something special as they progress in levels.&nbsp; Sorcerers do get to choose what spells they know and can replace some learned ones with other ones (a 3.5 change to the class).When they did 3.5 they rewrote the ranger to balance it out over the 20-level progression and not give him everything at 1st level.&nbsp; Nothing, however was done with the cleric.&nbsp; In fact it was the one class that had absoutley nothing changed.&nbsp; This comes into play when introducing prestigue classes.&nbsp; What does a cleric give up by changing?&nbsp; If it is a prestige class with a spellcaster level increase (i.e., +1 to existing spellcaster level) then it is not really all that much since the benefit of turning undead drops off after gaining 5th level or so which is the one thing he loses.&nbsp; A wizard on the other hand gives up his bonus feats, which can be a real penalty.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="irdeggman, post: 1477972, member: 16285"] I think that the cleric is acually the class with the weakest balance as far as choices and progressoin benefits go. The "only" choices a cleric character gets is at 1st level when his domains are chosen. If playing a a cleric of a specific deity then he can choose 2 from 4 or 5 choices and that is all. The only thing that a cleric character gains when progressing in levels is more spells and a greater number of spells. He doesn't even get to choose the spells he gains - he automatically knows all of the ones on his list (including his domain spells). This is not an argument over whether or not the cleric is the most powerful class only an issue on level gained abilities. All of the other classes (except for sorcerer) gain something special as they progress in levels. Sorcerers do get to choose what spells they know and can replace some learned ones with other ones (a 3.5 change to the class). When they did 3.5 they rewrote the ranger to balance it out over the 20-level progression and not give him everything at 1st level. Nothing, however was done with the cleric. In fact it was the one class that had absoutley nothing changed. This comes into play when introducing prestigue classes. What does a cleric give up by changing? If it is a prestige class with a spellcaster level increase (i.e., +1 to existing spellcaster level) then it is not really all that much since the benefit of turning undead drops off after gaining 5th level or so which is the one thing he loses. A wizard on the other hand gives up his bonus feats, which can be a real penalty. [/QUOTE]

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