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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4700226" data-attributes="member: 32536">The ideas you present in this post are so repugnant to me that I can't even really find the words... You ascribe terribly insulting motives to large groups of people simply because they play the game differently than you. You even manage to throw in a cheap "video game" quip that doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense (what kind of videogame even works like that?), so you have already hit on some of my biggest pet peeves.Anyways, you are so wrapped up in personal distaste that logic pretty much fails to apply to anything you are saying. It is all one big strawman full of linking together completely unrelated concepts with a twisted false dichotomy between "gamism" and "heroism". Certainly, the point where you claim that certain ways of playing the game are morally wrong, you cross all boundaries of making terrible and horribly flawed statements. Shame on you.Anyways, yes, the game world of D&D exists for the sake of the characters. This is not some horribly evil choice on my part, this is a fundamental part of how the game works. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the better a DM is, the more the game world is suited to the characters. The story of the game is the character's story. Their adventures are the story of the world. The world doesn't exist unless they visit it. This is no different than the how any other game or story works. The world of Middle Earth exists solely to tell the stories of Bilbo Baggins and Frodo. The world of Azeroth solely exists to be the setting for the Warcrat games. These stories and games are better for the fact that the worlds themselves are portrayed very differently in each series of books or each new game in order to facilitate a better experience.This doesn't mean that players should write up wishlists of everything they want in the game that they know they are going to get, but they have every right to expect that the game revolves around them. It is their right as players to have a fun game, after all, and fun games are ones that put the players in the spotlight and let them be a an important part of the evolution of the game.Really, bringing up abstract ideas of "what is more heroic" is totally absurd. The only thing anyone should ever expect out of D&D is a fun time. It is a game, after all. If the DM doing something to encourage the players to "be heroic" is not fun for the players, then the DM made a mistake.</blockquote>

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