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<blockquote data-quote="subrosas" data-source="post: 4701246" data-attributes="member: 24241">Mixes up two different ideasI think its useful to separate two ideas:How realistic a setting is as a sandboxWho's fun comes first? Player or game masterThey are really completely independent from one another, and both are continuums. Bad or pathological game experiences can emerge from sandboxes as easily as from railroads. Groups where players have no fun, or where the game master can't have fun - probably won't play together for very long.Some people hate customized treasure (&quot;hey look! ANOTHER magical military pick! and our fighter is specialized in military picks! What are the chances?&quot;), and some hate finding useless treasure (&quot;Hey! After I found that magic military pick six levels ago I spent four feats specializing in it, but all we ever find are magical spears. What the hell am I supposed to do with a magical spear?&quot;). Probably a happy answer is somewhere in the middle (&quot;hey! when we were in town the retired knight we were helping out saw that I used a military pick, and told me that way back when the Burning Lord also wielded a magical military pick, and that it was buried with him in the Ash Crypt. Mind if we make a side-trek out to the Ash Crypt&nbsp; and see if we can find it next week? It'd be perfect for my fighter.&quot;).Versimilitude doesn't have to suck, and saying yes to the players doesn't make it Christmas.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="subrosas, post: 4701246, member: 24241"] [b]Mixes up two different ideas[/b] I think its useful to separate two ideas: How realistic a setting is as a sandbox Who's fun comes first? Player or game master They are really completely independent from one another, and both are continuums. Bad or pathological game experiences can emerge from sandboxes as easily as from railroads. Groups where players have no fun, or where the game master can't have fun - probably won't play together for very long. Some people hate customized treasure ("hey look! ANOTHER magical military pick! and our fighter is specialized in military picks! What are the chances?"), and some hate finding useless treasure ("Hey! After I found that magic military pick six levels ago I spent four feats specializing in it, but all we ever find are magical spears. What the hell am I supposed to do with a magical spear?"). Probably a happy answer is somewhere in the middle ("hey! when we were in town the retired knight we were helping out saw that I used a military pick, and told me that way back when the Burning Lord also wielded a magical military pick, and that it was buried with him in the Ash Crypt. Mind if we make a side-trek out to the Ash Crypt and see if we can find it next week? It'd be perfect for my fighter."). Versimilitude doesn't have to suck, and saying yes to the players doesn't make it Christmas. [/QUOTE]

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