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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4704029" data-attributes="member: 7635">So its Ok if the PCs encounter Asmodeus at first level as long as they try talking to him, not attacking him. Ok...No. the encounter I laid out involves the next village the PCs enter getting sacked by monsters. The PCs can try to fight, flee, sneak around and cause mischief to the foe's flank, make a deal with them, or join in the carnage. My question is, is it fair to send monsters so high of level than many of those options are not viable (combat, sneaking, etc)?Still, if I'm using giants, am I not effectively (or subliminally) telling my players &quot;You can't win by fighting&quot;, a message that DOESN'T come from using orcs, which opens such options to the table?And thanks for validating my point; those giants move downriver to challenge higher-level PCs. Justify it all you want in game, you're using higher level monsters to challenge higher levels PCs because, well, its more fun than having the PCs grind the native orc population to dust. Like it or not, the DM is making a conscious choice to have a much more balanced fight there. He's making the opposite choice if they move downriver to challenge far weaker PCs. Either way, the DM is deciding the challenge the PCs should face based on both the details of his world AND the relative power of the PCs he's challenging.So its cool to use hill giants as foes for 5th level PCs as long as you don't expect them to fight them. Got it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 4704029, member: 7635"] So its Ok if the PCs encounter Asmodeus at first level as long as they try talking to him, not attacking him. Ok... No. the encounter I laid out involves the next village the PCs enter getting sacked by monsters. The PCs can try to fight, flee, sneak around and cause mischief to the foe's flank, make a deal with them, or join in the carnage. My question is, is it fair to send monsters so high of level than many of those options are not viable (combat, sneaking, etc)? Still, if I'm using giants, am I not effectively (or subliminally) telling my players "You can't win by fighting", a message that DOESN'T come from using orcs, which opens such options to the table? And thanks for validating my point; those giants move downriver to challenge higher-level PCs. Justify it all you want in game, you're using higher level monsters to challenge higher levels PCs because, well, its more fun than having the PCs grind the native orc population to dust. Like it or not, the DM is making a conscious choice to have a much more balanced fight there. He's making the opposite choice if they move downriver to challenge far weaker PCs. Either way, the DM is deciding the challenge the PCs should face based on both the details of his world AND the relative power of the PCs he's challenging. So its cool to use hill giants as foes for 5th level PCs as long as you don't expect them to fight them. Got it. [/QUOTE]

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