Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why the World Exists
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4707562" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Let's look at this interesting premise.</p><p></p><p>First off, one wonders how the rules can work <em><strong>improperly</strong></em>. If the rules said, for instance, that after each encounter, roll 1d6, with all PCs dying on a roll of "1", then, should that "1" come up, the rules would still be working <em><strong>properly</strong></em>. Likewise, if the use of the dice means that (say) there is a 2% chance of a character dying in an encounter, and a .005% chance of a TPK, then the rules are not working "improperly" when that result occurs.</p><p></p><p>The rules define what "properly" is.</p><p></p><p>What they do not define is what "desireable" is, i.e., what game experience is desired by the participant(s) at the table.</p><p></p><p>When a person fudges a die roll, it is not because the rules have suddenly ceased to work, it is because the working rules have, by chance, caused a result that was not desired by the person(s) fudging the die roll.</p><p></p><p>For example, if the dice are all rolled in the open, and a roll comes up that means a TPK is imminent, and the whole group opts that the die should be rerolled, then the result is not what was desired by the whole group. The game rules, however, haven't somehow failed to act properly, any more than the rules of chess have failed because you lost your queen.</p><p></p><p>If a player rolls a miss, and then secretly fudges it into a hit, the game rules haven't behaved improperly; they just didn't give the result desired by that player. </p><p></p><p>If a DM rolls damage that would kill a PC, and then secretly fudges it into a non-lethal blow, the game rules haven't behaved improperly; they just didn't give the result desired by that DM.</p><p> </p><p>The reason that the aforementioned player and DM do their fudging in secret, BTW, is obvious -- they do not want the rest of the group to know. In the player's case, he probably fears that he will be compelled to accept the original result. In the DM's case, he probably fears either that he will be compelled to accept the original result, or that knowledge of "plot protection" will damage his players' enjoyment of the game. This last is because the DM is well aware that fudging makes the success of the players to some degree illusory.</p><p></p><p>In either case, plot protection is involved because the fudger(s) have a desired outcome that rolling the dice does not automatically allow. Rolling the dice becomes a means to preserve an "illusion of chance" where chance is in reality constricted.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It says that the rules are more in accordance with your desired play experience so far. Nothing more, but also nothing less....and for you, that is a very good thing. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4707562, member: 18280"] Let's look at this interesting premise. First off, one wonders how the rules can work [I][B]improperly[/B][/I]. If the rules said, for instance, that after each encounter, roll 1d6, with all PCs dying on a roll of "1", then, should that "1" come up, the rules would still be working [I][B]properly[/B][/I]. Likewise, if the use of the dice means that (say) there is a 2% chance of a character dying in an encounter, and a .005% chance of a TPK, then the rules are not working "improperly" when that result occurs. The rules define what "properly" is. What they do not define is what "desireable" is, i.e., what game experience is desired by the participant(s) at the table. When a person fudges a die roll, it is not because the rules have suddenly ceased to work, it is because the working rules have, by chance, caused a result that was not desired by the person(s) fudging the die roll. For example, if the dice are all rolled in the open, and a roll comes up that means a TPK is imminent, and the whole group opts that the die should be rerolled, then the result is not what was desired by the whole group. The game rules, however, haven't somehow failed to act properly, any more than the rules of chess have failed because you lost your queen. If a player rolls a miss, and then secretly fudges it into a hit, the game rules haven't behaved improperly; they just didn't give the result desired by that player. If a DM rolls damage that would kill a PC, and then secretly fudges it into a non-lethal blow, the game rules haven't behaved improperly; they just didn't give the result desired by that DM. The reason that the aforementioned player and DM do their fudging in secret, BTW, is obvious -- they do not want the rest of the group to know. In the player's case, he probably fears that he will be compelled to accept the original result. In the DM's case, he probably fears either that he will be compelled to accept the original result, or that knowledge of "plot protection" will damage his players' enjoyment of the game. This last is because the DM is well aware that fudging makes the success of the players to some degree illusory. In either case, plot protection is involved because the fudger(s) have a desired outcome that rolling the dice does not automatically allow. Rolling the dice becomes a means to preserve an "illusion of chance" where chance is in reality constricted. It says that the rules are more in accordance with your desired play experience so far. Nothing more, but also nothing less....and for you, that is a very good thing. :) RC [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why the World Exists
Top