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<blockquote data-quote="GMMichael" data-source="post: 6130783" data-attributes="member: 6685730">The difference between touch attacks (any attack) and reflex saves are not always significant.&nbsp; Which is why 4th Ed made a big change in how saves work, and why D&amp;D Next is using &quot;Dexterity saves&quot; instead of Reflex saves.Meatboy, the starting point for your quest is to decide where the end result is.&nbsp; Do you want to have two slightly different mechanics that do slightly different things?&nbsp; Just one mechanic?&nbsp; What would it look like and how would it work?The next step is to survey the terrain.&nbsp; Saving throws are like skills - they get better with levels.&nbsp; Armor Class isn't like a skill; you have it or you don't.&nbsp; In 3e, saves are like last-ditch efforts, and you never intend to use one.&nbsp; Contrast this with skills: Tumble is a skill you choose to use, and would seem appropriate for dodging Touch Attacks, right?Additionally, different sides do the rolling for Touch attacks and saves.&nbsp; Touch Attack: attacker does the rolling.&nbsp; Reflex save: defender rolls.&nbsp; And they have different DCs: the target's Armor Class is a DC, and the caster's DC is, well, a DC.It's pretty messy.Enter my system.&nbsp; There are no saving throws.&nbsp; There are no DCs.&nbsp; Each side rolls, and the higher result wins.&nbsp; Either side can take 10 to expedite things.&nbsp; If you want to be better at dodging touch attacks, you take points in the Parry skill.&nbsp; If you want to be better (i.e. get a bonus) at casting your Disintegrate spell, you take points in Cast Disintegrate.&nbsp; Your Touch AC and your Reflex save are the same thing: a skill for dodging stuff.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMMichael, post: 6130783, member: 6685730"] The difference between touch attacks (any attack) and reflex saves are not always significant. Which is why 4th Ed made a big change in how saves work, and why D&D Next is using "Dexterity saves" instead of Reflex saves. Meatboy, the starting point for your quest is to decide where the end result is. Do you want to have two slightly different mechanics that do slightly different things? Just one mechanic? What would it look like and how would it work? The next step is to survey the terrain. Saving throws are like skills - they get better with levels. Armor Class isn't like a skill; you have it or you don't. In 3e, saves are like last-ditch efforts, and you never intend to use one. Contrast this with skills: Tumble is a skill you choose to use, and would seem appropriate for dodging Touch Attacks, right? Additionally, different sides do the rolling for Touch attacks and saves. Touch Attack: attacker does the rolling. Reflex save: defender rolls. And they have different DCs: the target's Armor Class is a DC, and the caster's DC is, well, a DC. It's pretty messy. Enter my system. There are no saving throws. There are no DCs. Each side rolls, and the higher result wins. Either side can take 10 to expedite things. If you want to be better at dodging touch attacks, you take points in the Parry skill. If you want to be better (i.e. get a bonus) at casting your Disintegrate spell, you take points in Cast Disintegrate. Your Touch AC and your Reflex save are the same thing: a skill for dodging stuff. [/QUOTE]

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