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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 6747311" data-attributes="member: 5890">I think the key failure in this analysis is that assuming that spotting the trap is the puzzle.I think that any trap which is 'solved' just by spotting it and 'not solved' by not spotting it is a bad trap.Step 1 is find the trap. I personally think there's nothing wrong with a trap that isn't telegraphed: not every trap maker is incompetent, and not every dungeon is poorly maintained. Part of the trap design should be "how it is concealed". If your players suspect a trap, the fallback shouldn't be "I roll a skill" - it should be meaningful interaction with the trap components, which is impossible if your trap "detects a creature", for instance. You have to say how it detects a creature, otherwise the players can't do anything to prevent that from happening.Failing to spot/deduce the existence of a trap should simply mean that it consumes resources. In my book that ranges from damage to curses to poisons to outright death (D&D is pretty easy on people who die - you can start coming back from mere death at 5th level). I recommend not killing characters if your party does not have some form of resurrection available. Unless you just want to be Darwinian about it.After the trap is found (one way or another), meaningful interaction should continue.Do you need to disable the trap or can you just walk around it? Do you want to disable the trap? Can you get treasure from disabling the trap? Can you make use of the trap?These are all things that should happen after you find a trap. The trap should be potent enough (and the dungeon well enough designed) that it can be used against the dungeon denizens. The trap should be well enough designed that you can interact with it meaningfully with or without skills. If the only interaction with a trap is "I disable the trap *roll*", then you've failed to design the trap well.Ideally disabling a difficult trap should require multiple party members each performing different actions, and does not fail on a missed check, but does consume resources. Basically the same way combat works.If your barbarian is waiting to swing at the chain of the giant ball, while the rogue is jumping on the pressure pad and the wizard has used stone shape so that the ball will roll down the corridor into the Minotaur guard post, then you've done it right, even if the cleric had to resurrect the rogue because he failed his perception check.</blockquote>

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