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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7970376" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Yeah, I don't get it sometimes when people want to talk about &quot;real literature&quot; and I'm an English Major. Read Moby Dick for a college class, and when we got to the end, do you know the overwhelming message involved in Ishmael's life being saved? Friendship. It is quite literally the Power of Friendship, like any Saturday morning cartoon. He had other messages, obviously, but that one just jumped out at me. It also plays a huge part in the Lord of the Rings, after all, it is why Frodo and Same got to the mountain, because of the strength of their friendship allowing Sam to drag Frodo up. One of my current favorite authors is a &quot;no-name&quot; on Kindle Unlimited. One of their fantasy series involved a plot by the villains to brainwash and enslave a sleeping goddess. And it worked (kinda). Then, in a later book, they actually deal with the identity crisis of the Goddess, who can't go back to who she was, but can't be who they made her into either, and the discussions between the sides of her church about what the canon belief will be. They didn't dive deep into socio-political or allegorical stuff, but the baseline ideas were fairly complex takes on identity and who gets to decide your identity when you are a &quot;public figure&quot; Heck, I'll make an admission, I've read porn that had a deeply layered story involving the struggle against your own dark impulses when you are powerful enough that no one can stop you. Does power corrupt and can you stop it from corrupting you too much was a major theme in that work. With amazing characterization and solid writing. Even stuff I hate, like the Twilight series, can have a glimmer or two of a great idea, so I don't understand why people feel this need to point out an entire genre or sub-genre of writing and call it lesser. Sure, a lot of that genre might be drek (bodice rippers and romances, I'm looking at you, and you know it) but I'd never say it was impossible to find amazing writing within that genre.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7970376, member: 6801228"] Yeah, I don't get it sometimes when people want to talk about "real literature" and I'm an English Major. Read Moby Dick for a college class, and when we got to the end, do you know the overwhelming message involved in Ishmael's life being saved? Friendship. It is quite literally the Power of Friendship, like any Saturday morning cartoon. He had other messages, obviously, but that one just jumped out at me. It also plays a huge part in the Lord of the Rings, after all, it is why Frodo and Same got to the mountain, because of the strength of their friendship allowing Sam to drag Frodo up. One of my current favorite authors is a "no-name" on Kindle Unlimited. One of their fantasy series involved a plot by the villains to brainwash and enslave a sleeping goddess. And it worked (kinda). Then, in a later book, they actually deal with the identity crisis of the Goddess, who can't go back to who she was, but can't be who they made her into either, and the discussions between the sides of her church about what the canon belief will be. They didn't dive deep into socio-political or allegorical stuff, but the baseline ideas were fairly complex takes on identity and who gets to decide your identity when you are a "public figure" Heck, I'll make an admission, I've read porn that had a deeply layered story involving the struggle against your own dark impulses when you are powerful enough that no one can stop you. Does power corrupt and can you stop it from corrupting you too much was a major theme in that work. With amazing characterization and solid writing. Even stuff I hate, like the Twilight series, can have a glimmer or two of a great idea, so I don't understand why people feel this need to point out an entire genre or sub-genre of writing and call it lesser. Sure, a lot of that genre might be drek (bodice rippers and romances, I'm looking at you, and you know it) but I'd never say it was impossible to find amazing writing within that genre. [/QUOTE]

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