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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7977130" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Max, I generally try and be very polite, but this time I'm seriously wondering if you even bothered to read my actual point before trying to argue against it. You want to talk about how two effects that add damage on an attack are similiar, and ignore every single difference between them? Including the very basic fact that you got the damage dice wrong.Why would I assume they are identical effects? Because they are casting identical spells might be a good place to start with. I did specifically say they were casting the same spell for the same cost, one of them was just converted into spell points instead of slots. And, why would I advocate for axing anything? My entire point is that the design challenge is to make them different, while using the same abilities.Bards have many abilities to differentiate them from wizards, along with a vastly different spell list. Sorcerers, well, to be blunt, I think sorcerers as designed by RAW suck, they don't get nearly enough to make them different than wizards and just end up less powerful than wizards as a result. And, actually, telepathy really highlights the problem with the Psion that I am trying to point out needs to be addressed. The Telepathic feat has two abilities : 1) Talking to a creature within 30, only if you share a language and they can't talk back.  2) Casting Detect Thoughts by shrinking your Psi DieWe also have the GOO Warlock which gives you a better version of the Telepathic ability #1 in that you do not need to share a language. The Soul Knife gives a group of people a Telepathy network. Random number of people, lasts for an hour, distance of a mile, do not need to share a languaeThe Psionic Soul gives telepathy, one individual, random number of hours, and random number of miles, and the two of you must share a language Then there is also the Telepathic Bond Spell, which is 8 creatures for an hour, no limit on distance, and no need to share a language. Oh, and there is telepathy, you and 1 target, who can be anywhere when you cast the spell, and you can do more than talk, it also lets you send sensory information and imagesCan't forget races. Kalashtar can create a psychic link. It looks like they can just talk to anyone within 10 to 200 ft (depending on level) and they do not need to share a language, and as an action you can allow them to respond for up to an hour. Githzerai get detect thoughts once per daySo, how do we give Psions Telepathy? Do we just copy an 8th level spell? How about the 2nd level spell? Give them the Kalashtar racial ability? The Soul Knife's ability? The question is not "do we even bother to make a psion" that is not the point I am trying to make, I am trying to make the point that giving Psion's an ability like telepathy seems like a no-brainer, but there are a ton of ways to already do that, of varying strengths and costs, and as the class for psionic abilities, they should be the best, right? But you also can't just throw balance out the window, so we need to look at all of these abilities and figure out how to navigate giving them the ability to speak telepathically without just copying something that you could already do with another psionic option. Same for Telekinesis. The same for any other ability you want to give them, because a lot of psionic abilities already exist and need to be considered.</blockquote>

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