Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8946092" data-attributes="member: 6877472">It's just to illustrate what went wrong with Challenge Rating; it worked for the way the game was assumed to be played, and WotC was, at the time, fairly open about their assumptions (Monte Cook's comments about &quot;ivory tower&quot; design notwithstanding).Now that they mostly tried to patch the game behind the scenes to adjust for this new style of play, without being quite as transparent about it (and even when they were, with the polymorph nerf or the magic item overhaul, you had to buy a book!) is pretty reprehensible.They came out and admit they made a math error in 4e...though the way they &quot;fixed&quot; the problem was ridiculous (&quot;hey, you wanted less feats, right?&quot;).But with 5e, not only have they never been really clear about what the baseline assumptions were (other than, &quot;we balance around hit points and damage&quot;*), they continued to make some of the same old mistakes, and, again, when they do figure out what the baseline is, they didn't come out and say what their assumptions were- they just adjusted them for new products they could sell us.&nbsp; *I could rant about this one point for hours.&nbsp; So don't balance for super high AC's.&nbsp; Or strange accuracy boosting.&nbsp; Or hard control effects.&nbsp; Nope!&nbsp; Can some imaginary party we made up in our heads take X damage and deal Y damage back?&nbsp; Great!And what does that party consist of, at this point?&nbsp; Are we assuming that everyone has switched to playing Tasha's subclasses?&nbsp; Is the Twilight Cleric the benchmark for design now?&nbsp; What happens to people who are still playing older subclasses?&nbsp; Are they considered subpar?Or if you make a weak subclass, are you saying that the older ones are too good?&nbsp; Like, say every Barbarian subclass is weaker than Totem Warrior (this is an example, if you don't believe this, I'm not trying to start a fight over it.&nbsp; I've never played a Barbarian in 5e, and I've only ever DM'd for one of them, and he was a Totem Warrior, so I have no basis of comparison).&nbsp; It Totem Warrior OP?&nbsp; Does it need to be nerfed?Are they just expecting the DM's and player base to figure that out on their own?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8946092, member: 6877472"] It's just to illustrate what went wrong with Challenge Rating; it worked for the way the game was assumed to be played, and WotC was, at the time, fairly open about their assumptions (Monte Cook's comments about "ivory tower" design notwithstanding). Now that they mostly tried to patch the game behind the scenes to adjust for this new style of play, without being quite as transparent about it (and even when they were, with the polymorph nerf or the magic item overhaul, you had to buy a book!) is pretty reprehensible. They came out and admit they made a math error in 4e...though the way they "fixed" the problem was ridiculous ("hey, you wanted less feats, right?"). But with 5e, not only have they never been really clear about what the baseline assumptions were (other than, "we balance around hit points and damage"*), they continued to make some of the same old mistakes, and, again, when they do figure out what the baseline is, they didn't come out and say what their assumptions were- they just adjusted them for new products they could sell us. *I could rant about this one point for hours. So don't balance for super high AC's. Or strange accuracy boosting. Or hard control effects. Nope! Can some imaginary party we made up in our heads take X damage and deal Y damage back? Great! And what does that party consist of, at this point? Are we assuming that everyone has switched to playing Tasha's subclasses? Is the Twilight Cleric the benchmark for design now? What happens to people who are still playing older subclasses? Are they considered subpar? Or if you make a weak subclass, are you saying that the older ones are too good? Like, say every Barbarian subclass is weaker than Totem Warrior (this is an example, if you don't believe this, I'm not trying to start a fight over it. I've never played a Barbarian in 5e, and I've only ever DM'd for one of them, and he was a Totem Warrior, so I have no basis of comparison). It Totem Warrior OP? Does it need to be nerfed? Are they just expecting the DM's and player base to figure that out on their own? [/QUOTE]

Verification