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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6350523" data-attributes="member: 22779">Trying to wheel this thread back around, and avoid the low level edition warring that seems to be brewing here.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I look at a simulation as a model for describing what happens when you do something.  Newtonian physics might be an abstraction, sure, but, it does describe pretty well why someone might yell at me from across the room when I break wind, even silently.  (Well, it might be Newton's fault, or it might be that bean burrito I had last night, or possibly a collusion of both.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> )In any case, a simulation model in order to actually BE a simulation model has to tell you how something happened.  And we do see this in arguments over D&D.  The idea of rules as physics for example means exactly this.  The rules model what happens in the game world.  My problem with that is, the rules have never actually done it.  Take combat as a good example.  Bob the fighter attacks an orc and misses.  Now, in the game, all that's happened is Bob failed to achieve a particular number.  But, what happened in the game world?  Well, we really don't know.  Did Bob whiff, did he bounce off armor, did the orc parry the attack, did the orc use its shield?  Who knows?  The rules certainly doesn't tell us anything other than the attack failed.The same thing is true when the attack succeeded.  All we know is somehow Bob managed to reduce the orc's HP.  How he did so, again, is entirely up in the air since the mechanics are silent on the issue.  In a simulation model, all those questions get answered.  The degree of detail might vary, but, at least there are answers there.  That's what a simulation should do - provide answers.  But D&D mechanics never actually manage to provide any answers really.Earlier it was mentioned that the multiclassing rules are good simulations.  Really?  Simulating what?  Bob the fighter carves his way through a bunch of orcs, gets the pie and goes back to the Keep.  He has killed and looted and done enough stuff that the game judges him to be second level.  Upon gaining second level, he takes a level in Wizard/Magic User (take your pick, depending on edition).  What happened in the game world?  He has done absolutely no training, and has had no contact with any wizards, yet, now he somehow gains the abilities that would normally take years of training to gain.  After all, had he started out as a first level wizard, he would have had to spend many years becoming that wizard.  But, he spends two weeks killing orcs, and that makes him a magic user?  How?The rules, again, are silent on the issue.  There is no how there.  If there's no how, then what makes it a simulation?One thing I do agree with [MENTION=44640]bill[/MENTION]91 about though is this.  D&D is a great game for emulating the works of E. R. Burroughs.  An alien being with superpowers arrives on the scene, stronger, faster and better than anyone around him, and proceeds to climb his or her way to the top of the heap, gaining wealth and fame along the way.  Sounds exactly like a D&D character to me.</blockquote>

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