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Why use D&D for a Simulationist style Game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6352944" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>This is a Granny Smith vs Golden Delicious argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p>When you compare two things pulled from a very narrow selection, you will always be able to find the differences. No matter how similar things are, you can always find differences. Granny Smith apples are more green while Golden Delicious are yellow. Smith is more bitter while Golen are softer. D&D is more abstract and GURPS is more sim. </p><p>But as soon as you widen the selection, the similarities outweigh the differences. Comparing Granny Smith and Golden Delicious to a pear reveals the former have the same size, shape, rough texture, thickness of skin, and a more similar taste. The pear has a vastly different shape, is much softer, and has a radically different taste. When you compare D&D and GURPS to something remotely comparable, like Descent or Battletech, both seem like models of simulation and verisimilitude.</p><p>But pears and apples are still pretty close. We still haven't quite hit the cliche that is apples and oranges. Which would be games as different as chess or Magic the Gathering. </p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D is has elements of sim. Because, like all RPGs, it's tied to a narrative that evokes the real world. The mechanics have to remotely match the narrative, and mechanics that are impossible to narrate become problematic. </p><p>Mearls had a good example of this in one of his Legends & Lore articles. When fighting a big monster (say a dragon) the players might opt to duck behind a pillar for cover. They don't need to know that cover exists as a mechanic or know how it works. But they're doing the action anyway because it makes sense: keep a big hunk of stone between you and the giant monster with a breath weapon. That's inherently simulationist. </p><p>The player could turn around and push over the ruined pillar, potentially bringing the roof down on the dragon. Unlike cover, there are no rules for "topping a pillar" or "roof falling on dragon" but the action can still work and have positive consequences because the game reflects the narrative. </p><p></p><p>You can't choose to hide behind a pillar in MtG, or make creative use out of the environment in Battletech. You're bound by the rules. While you can roleplay, talk in character, add a connective narrative between sessions, and the like the games are still as limited by the rules as video games. </p><p></p><p></p><p>There are less sim RPGs on the market, but these tend to be much, much less crunchy than D&D. Things like the Marvel Heroes game and, to a lesser extent, Fat, where you might not necessarily narrate individual rounds of combat and instead describe scenes. Instead of hiding behind a pillar to gain cover you instead gain cover and then describe how you gained it.</p><p></p><p>(The big exception to this being hitpoints and armour class. Which are much closer to the effect then cause abstractness of story manipulation games. You survive the hit because you had lots of hit points and the DM narrates how that worked. But those are really the exception.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6352944, member: 37579"] This is a Granny Smith vs Golden Delicious argument. When you compare two things pulled from a very narrow selection, you will always be able to find the differences. No matter how similar things are, you can always find differences. Granny Smith apples are more green while Golden Delicious are yellow. Smith is more bitter while Golen are softer. D&D is more abstract and GURPS is more sim. But as soon as you widen the selection, the similarities outweigh the differences. Comparing Granny Smith and Golden Delicious to a pear reveals the former have the same size, shape, rough texture, thickness of skin, and a more similar taste. The pear has a vastly different shape, is much softer, and has a radically different taste. When you compare D&D and GURPS to something remotely comparable, like Descent or Battletech, both seem like models of simulation and verisimilitude. But pears and apples are still pretty close. We still haven't quite hit the cliche that is apples and oranges. Which would be games as different as chess or Magic the Gathering. D&D is has elements of sim. Because, like all RPGs, it's tied to a narrative that evokes the real world. The mechanics have to remotely match the narrative, and mechanics that are impossible to narrate become problematic. Mearls had a good example of this in one of his Legends & Lore articles. When fighting a big monster (say a dragon) the players might opt to duck behind a pillar for cover. They don't need to know that cover exists as a mechanic or know how it works. But they're doing the action anyway because it makes sense: keep a big hunk of stone between you and the giant monster with a breath weapon. That's inherently simulationist. The player could turn around and push over the ruined pillar, potentially bringing the roof down on the dragon. Unlike cover, there are no rules for "topping a pillar" or "roof falling on dragon" but the action can still work and have positive consequences because the game reflects the narrative. You can't choose to hide behind a pillar in MtG, or make creative use out of the environment in Battletech. You're bound by the rules. While you can roleplay, talk in character, add a connective narrative between sessions, and the like the games are still as limited by the rules as video games. There are less sim RPGs on the market, but these tend to be much, much less crunchy than D&D. Things like the Marvel Heroes game and, to a lesser extent, Fat, where you might not necessarily narrate individual rounds of combat and instead describe scenes. Instead of hiding behind a pillar to gain cover you instead gain cover and then describe how you gained it. (The big exception to this being hitpoints and armour class. Which are much closer to the effect then cause abstractness of story manipulation games. You survive the hit because you had lots of hit points and the DM narrates how that worked. But those are really the exception.) [/QUOTE]
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