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<blockquote data-quote="evileeyore" data-source="post: 6354737" data-attributes="member: 1768">And that's the problem.D&amp;D doesn't care if your hitting it with your axe, shoulder charging it, or kicking it in.&nbsp; &quot;Make a Bend Bars/Lift Gates - STR DC Check&quot; and you're done.GURPS cares.&nbsp; Those differences inform the roll.&nbsp; And it's not a slight difference.&nbsp; Is the PC Charging?&nbsp; That's a bonus.&nbsp; Is he putting his shield into it?&nbsp; That's a bonus.&nbsp; Does he have a skill that aids?&nbsp; That's a bonus.&nbsp; And it's not a &quot;simpel roll&quot;, it's damage whether striaght STR or a weapon (Shield Bash is a weapon).&nbsp; If the PC &quot;fails&quot; to burst the door, he's still damaged something (whichever the ST deemed was the weak point) and can apply more damage on the next try.D&amp;D - Pass/Fail.&nbsp; Nothing in between.&nbsp; The roll doesn't inform us of anything else.&nbsp; That the DM can create a narrative is meaningless, he can do so any time he wants, with out rolls.&nbsp; That the roll in D&amp;D is a Pass/Fail is where is fails to be sim.And HP.&nbsp; LOL.&nbsp; Hit Points are so abstract it's not funny.&nbsp; For those crying &quot;HP are meat&quot; they really should play GURPS, there HP is meat.A Kick deals damage differently than a Slam, Slams deal damage based on velocity and mass:&nbsp; (HPxvelocity)/100.&nbsp; If a Shield is involved you have make a Shield skill roll to properly set it between the PC and the target, if successful it adds it DR to the damage.A Kick just deals Thrust +1 or 2 depending on the level of your Karate or Brawl skill.&nbsp; Unless you're using a Special Technique, which can increase the damage a bit.So, yes the roll (which is informed by all these modifiers) can tell you whether the PC Slammed the door, hit it with his Axe, Kicked it, Punched it, etc...&nbsp; no DM needed to wave his hand and invent narrative.Sorry if I didn't spell it out.&nbsp; But GURPS is vastly more sim than D&amp;D has or likely ever will be.&nbsp; And as I've said, GURPS isn't even close to a &quot;perfect&quot; sim.&nbsp; Not even close.I put it around the 60% Simulation mark.&nbsp; D&amp;D is in the high teens, low twenties.&nbsp; IMO.No it isn't.&nbsp; GURPS builds the roll based on the narrative to simulate the events the PC is describing he's trying to do.&nbsp; D&amp;D says &quot;Roll the dice&quot; and abstracts the results, the DM then narrates.Is D&amp;D completely abstract?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; And no one is making that claim.&nbsp; However D&amp;D is a very poor sim game, it has almost no sim elements at all.That's what I see happening here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evileeyore, post: 6354737, member: 1768"] And that's the problem. D&D doesn't care if your hitting it with your axe, shoulder charging it, or kicking it in. "Make a Bend Bars/Lift Gates - STR DC Check" and you're done. [I]GURPS[/I] cares. Those differences inform the roll. And it's not a slight difference. Is the PC Charging? That's a bonus. Is he putting his shield into it? That's a bonus. Does he have a skill that aids? That's a bonus. And it's not a "simpel roll", it's damage whether striaght STR or a weapon (Shield Bash is a weapon). If the PC "fails" to burst the door, he's still damaged something (whichever the ST deemed was the weak point) and can apply more damage on the next try. D&D - Pass/Fail. Nothing in between. The roll doesn't inform us of anything else. That the DM can create a narrative is meaningless, he can do so any time he wants, with out rolls. That the roll in D&D is a Pass/Fail is where is fails to be sim. And HP. LOL. Hit Points are so abstract it's not funny. For those crying "HP are meat" they really should play [I]GURPS[/I], there HP is meat. A Kick deals damage differently than a Slam, Slams deal damage based on velocity and mass: (HPxvelocity)/100. If a Shield is involved you have make a Shield skill roll to properly set it between the PC and the target, if successful it adds it DR to the damage. A Kick just deals Thrust +1 or 2 depending on the level of your Karate or Brawl skill. Unless you're using a Special Technique, which can increase the damage a bit. So, yes the roll (which is informed by all these modifiers) can tell you whether the PC Slammed the door, hit it with his Axe, Kicked it, Punched it, etc... no DM needed to wave his hand and invent narrative. Sorry if I didn't spell it out. But [I]GURPS[/I] is vastly more sim than D&D has or likely ever will be. And as I've said, [I]GURPS[/I] isn't even close to a "perfect" sim. Not even close. I put it around the 60% Simulation mark. D&D is in the high teens, low twenties. IMO. No it isn't. [I]GURPS[/I] builds the roll based on the narrative to simulate the events the PC is describing he's trying to do. D&D says "Roll the dice" and abstracts the results, the DM then narrates. Is D&D completely abstract? No. And no one is making that claim. However D&D is a very poor sim game, it has almost no sim elements at all. That's what I see happening here. [/QUOTE]

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