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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8557629" data-attributes="member: 20564">One issue with 5e is that as part of the steamlining they frequently use spell and feature durations of &quot;until the (start|end) oif your next turn&quot; to really mean &quot;everyone will be affected by this during exactly one of their turns.&nbsp; It's a nice bit of streamlining combat when you have cyclical initiative.&nbsp; But it breaks down and requires other types of duration when initiative changes from round to round.Picture this - you are a monk, and you stun someone who has already acted.&nbsp; Next round you go even faster - say you don't have to move in what you proposed, or you just roll better.&nbsp; You go before the person you stunned and there stun is completed - but they never lost an action to it.Early editions where you rolled initiative every round (and could incorporate things like weapon speed and casting time) measured duration for full rounds, not ending part way though one.&nbsp; This does in some ways rounds down with if you go later in the round you could effect someone one less time, but they also had a lot less single round occurances, so if sometimes your 5 round duration afected someone 4 times or sometimes 5 times, that wasn't as big a change as 0 or 1.This isn't a problem with variable initiative.&nbsp; It's the combination of variable initiative, 5e streamlining, and the number of short duration effects, esp. &quot;1 of everyone's turn&quot; ones.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8557629, member: 20564"] One issue with 5e is that as part of the steamlining they frequently use spell and feature durations of "until the (start|end) oif your next turn" to really mean "everyone will be affected by this during exactly one of their turns. It's a nice bit of streamlining combat when you have cyclical initiative. But it breaks down and requires other types of duration when initiative changes from round to round. Picture this - you are a monk, and you stun someone who has already acted. Next round you go even faster - say you don't have to move in what you proposed, or you just roll better. You go before the person you stunned and there stun is completed - but they never lost an action to it. Early editions where you rolled initiative every round (and could incorporate things like weapon speed and casting time) measured duration for full rounds, not ending part way though one. This does in some ways rounds down with if you go later in the round you could effect someone one less time, but they also had a lot less single round occurances, so if sometimes your 5 round duration afected someone 4 times or sometimes 5 times, that wasn't as big a change as 0 or 1. This isn't a problem with variable initiative. It's the combination of variable initiative, 5e streamlining, and the number of short duration effects, esp. "1 of everyone's turn" ones. [/QUOTE]

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