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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Green Knight" data-source="post: 3873568" data-attributes="member: 2723">Because they're still mortal. A Commoner turned into a Vampire will become a lot stronger. Likewise, a 10th-level Fighter turned into a Vampire will also become a lot stronger. Is there any reason to think that they wouldn't get stronger? Have you ever seen a case in fiction where someone who was turned into a vampire didn't become superhuman in comparison to what he was, before? According to your argument, if a character gains enough levels, then becoming a vampire won't be much of an advantage. If one were to continue that train of thought, then if one were to gain even more levels, then there would come a point at which gaining vampire abilities would become a hindrance. Neither of those examples makes any sense at all. If you get turned into a vampire, then you're going to become superhuman in comparison to what you were, before. Plain and simple. And if you're NOT becoming superhuman because of the sake of game balance, well, that's not the vampire, anymore. In which case you may as well slap a different name on the critter, cause it ain't a vampire.    And that sort of thing is usually tied to age, not class levels. The vampire gains his abilities after centuries of undeath, not after a couple weeks killing kobolds in dungeons.  Besides, I'm talking about the BASE vampire. The things which most vampires have in common, which they get right out of the gate the moment they become vampires. And that's superhuman speed, superhuman strength, superhuman reflexes, and so on. A vampire gets a large suite of abilities the moment he becomes a vampire. He doesn't get his abilities incrementally in small doses. Has that ever been the case, anywhere?    Those would be oddball cases best represented by some vampire variant, and not the baseline vampire. When people think of vampires, bursting into flames under sunlight is one of the things that comes to mind. One could say it's iconic. Therefore, it's something that should be part of the 4E vampire. You really want to see an iconic creature like the vampire have his abilities based off of a couple of corner examples? May as well have a red dragon that doesn't breathe fire.    So a regular vampire can survive under the sun with only some disadvantages, but a vampire with the ability to turn into a bat and a wolf would burst into flames?</blockquote>

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